Symbolism, Eminationism, Color Magick, Etheric Tides & Universal Planes

10:36for a long time right they're mirroring each other you know all they can see it's like everything's on a gigantic like carousel, a circular, you know, a circular kind of track that we're all on that is in the horizontal plane and from wherever I am, I'm my line of sight is directly across from me, you know, and so all all I'm all I'm kind of objectifying is my my polarity, what's directly across from me, uh, diametrically opposed to me. And you see that a lot. You see that

11:25kind of like that that juxtaposition of perspective and this hyperfixation on what's going on directly opposite of wherever I am. And some people, you know, they observe this and they're moved to the point where um by whatever this is, by their observation and their analysis of it to sort of, you know, let's say in the sphere of politics to act against it as a countermeasure. And that starts out, you know, fine and well, right? That's that's the principle. That's you're

12:04embodying the quality of justice. You see the imbalance. Matter of fact, you fixate on it. Sometimes it's the only thing you can see. And so you embody the rectification balance. Let's say maybe maybe in the case of of you're seeing an excess of severity, you come in and you embody uh mercy. But the thing is if you allow yourself to constantly objectify what is diametrically opposed to you all the time, you will slowly shift. You will no longer be embodying mercy. You will be embodying severity against severity. And

12:46so everything that turned you off about it, everything that riled you up, everything that that appealed to this sense of fairness and justice in the first place, you're now giving that expression into the world. You have now embodied the very thing that you dislike. And because it's not about what politics I choose, it's not about what side I choose. It's about what force am I embodying? What super essential quality is being allowed to express itself in the world through my actions?

13:27And I learned that from the mystical cabal. I learned that from Dion fortune. — Yeah. Yeah. Uh kind of speaking back to the cabalian a little bit. I know it's not like super in-depth, but I think it is such a great foundation and definitely has a special place for me because it was, you know, one of the first that I had come across. I found it super comprehensive. It was like literally one of the first books as elementary as it was that kind of like opened me up to a lot of these things

13:58with, you know, just providing a lot of the understanding of things like polarity or rhythm or the cyclical nature of things. And I really liked uh the term the all. I I loved how it used that term and and yeah, like you spoke to with the principle of gender, especially now with all the gender [ __ ] going on, it's always in the back of my mind. And I just I think that um it's one that's obviously grabbed on to and talked about a lot because of the simplicity and being able to break it

14:35down, you know, like the seven principles and all that. So, it gets a lot of like attention and it's put out there by everybody. So, it's super trendy, but I do like it and I do think that it's valuable. So I think it's a good recommendation like for like you say people coming into these things. Um — Yeah. Yeah. Because the thing is like you you don't I would rather have somebody who's like telling me, you know, I want to talk with the spirit of my dead grandmother,

15:07you know, or or something like that. I want to command spirits. I'd rather have them come into my group than somebody's like, "Uh, I'm here to study the texts, you know. All right, get out of here." So, it's like that that's the whole thing. And the cabalion um it starts opening you up, I think, to to some of these ideas. It's not — it's not hermetic in terms of like let's include it in the hermetic literature. It's inspired by the hermetica, though.

15:38I mean I just I just did a fullcale investigation of the corpus hermeticum uh some of the technical hermetica uh in in whatever is available from the Perso Arabic um most of that stuff's in there you know um even like the hermetical diagram you know uh in the um I want to say it's in the chrisapoa um that that sort of I I would say it's like a henistic era uh manual of of alchemical hermetic uh diagrams right that the oraorus that says entopan that's the all I mean so that's where they get that title um you

16:23know the pyander talking about I am news and I am with you everywhere and I know everything about you I know what you want when you want it I am everything yeah everything is mental all is mind um you know so it's there and it goes goes on, you know, they they they definitely combed the corpus hermeticum. They didn't pull it out of their ass. And a lot of that, I think, is because I truly I do believe even though there's there's not um enough evidence to say definitively and and even if I found

16:54evidence that proved me wrong, I wouldn't really give that much of a [ __ ] But the thing is like I do believe that Paul Foster case was you know as he has been alleged uh to be I do believe he was one of the three initiates quote unquote that wrote that book and uh he was a Golden Dawn initiate by way of the um the Stella Matutina you know so he definitely would have known his [ __ ] — What about William Atkinson? You think he had a hand? — Um I think so. I think if there's any

17:26evidence, it's there, you know, for him, especially because he wrote like the eight cosmic principles after he added like one he added like another principle. Um, and he released that like shortly after uh the cabal. Here's the thing, he could have just seen a good thing and capitalized on it, but I don't know if there's like records from his publisher um or anything like that. Uh, but sure, William Wker Atinson for me was one of those new thought guys. So, not a fan. That's the That's the problem I

17:58have with with the Cabalion. The Caballion is basically it's like um it's like drinking skim milk, you know? Uh it's like, yeah, okay, I get it. It's like it people like it. Maybe it's it's good for you, but the people who drink it are [ __ ] obnoxious, you know? It's like one of those — with you on that. you know, it's like I don't give a [ __ ] You read Deepo Chopra and then read this book. I I I can't have a conversation with you yet, you know, like let's let's let's get you

18:27somewhere else. But it's it's great when you're first coming to uh when you're first coming here. Sure. It's a great text, right? Because what else are you going to read? So, — definitely. All right. So, uh — that's why I that's why I love this [ __ ] podcast because I get to just kind of I get to just say like wild [ __ ] like that. It's my favorite. — All right. So, the circuit of force um this may relate to color magic, but uh I was looking at the chapter titled

18:58psychic centers and their use and it was describing the color allocations, you know, some of them were like multiple colors. Uh Mel Cuth is like the four colors of earth, whatever those are. And then — of rustic and black. — Boom. Yes. Uh, indigo, dark purple, violet. I don't know if there's another in there. Um, — yeah. No. Well, how many were those? Were those four? — Uh, that was three. Indigo, dark purple, and violet, but I think it it was saying there were four, but then it only listed

19:28three that I could see. — Yeah, because because the four the fourth color is probably uh specked. It probably has little little flashes in it. I think it would be like — like maybe gray fleck black or fleck gold or something like that. So, the thing is with all of these attributions of color, this was a tremendous part of the first iteration of the inner order of the Golden Dawn. Um, color magic is tremendous in the Golden Dawn. Still, um, it's the main sort of of a neopight adapt minor

20:03of the the RR at AC, the Russia, the uh, the inner order of the Golden Dawn. You're working color magic. That's exactly that's all you're doing really until you take like you know until you learn about the um the actual Neil fight hall and how to conduct a ritual on the astral. Uh but we don't just do astral initiations by the way. So don't don't think that's what I'm talking about. Uh but there there are like three or four different levels on which any given

20:32hierofphant is working during a physical ritual as well. So you have to learn that. But everything before that is just color magic. and and it it continues. So the the underlying idea behind color is that it's not a symbol. Symbols are things that communicate um or represent and can sometimes embody right like a talisman uh a force. But color is a force in itself. Color is an actual physical force. We know that about it. You know, I when I was born, I was jaundest. I was a preeie. I was, you

21:12know, in an incubator for the first uh like six weeks of my life. And what brought me back? Blue light. — So, it's, you know, it's not fake. Color is a force in itself. It's an actual force, not symbolic. It's an actual physical force. Um, so we use color a lot in magic and and a lot of people poo poo the golden dawn uh and their ritual of I did. I walked in and I'm like, "Oh my god, you guys don't use pastels. I'm out." You know, it's all pime telling me

21:43it's all [ __ ] primary colors, you know. Uh it's, you know, it looks like a like a like a playroom, but it's not because they like bright colors. It's be there's a [ __ ] reason for everything in a Golden Dawn Temple. Everything. If you think something's like just hanging out on like a counter, you know, everything's there for a reason. Nothing is arbitrary. Uh so, but color magic is a huge huge part of it. And actually Moina Mats, um Sam Mats's wife and one of the founders

22:16of the Golden Dawn, even though she wasn't a chief, she was ju, you know, just as much uh part of the leadership um and and founding of the Golden Dawn as anyone else. Uh she was an artist and she went to art school. In fact, she she met Annie Hornman um in art school and uh who was, you know, a benefactor to her and her husband for their the rest of their lives almost. and uh was a major part of the the hermetic order of the golden dawn any ornament. Um but so Moina put together the entire list of uh

22:50the color scales and they're based on the four worlds of the cabala. So that's why you typically have four um you have the king scale, queen scale, prince scale, and princess scale. And they get more and more rarified. You be you be in the king scale you begin with primary colors and you move downward. Um, and in the in the the princess scale, they're typically like flecked, you know, uh, black flecked gold. Um, or raid, they call it. They're either flecked or raid. So, um, so that's a

23:23huge part of uh, and they're all corresponded to different zodiacal signs, planets, all sorts of crazy [ __ ] They really corresponded to the Sephirot on the tree of life, the the Na'vi, the paths on the tree of life. Uh, a lot of entrylevel adept quote unquote uh, work is in color magic. — Yeah. And I think it lends a lot of insight into something like if you think about like tarot cards, like we have all these various tarot cards out there. Some are just really beautiful, but maybe they don't have color to them. And

23:58you know, I think that they still hold value and, you know, a lot of utility for sure, but I feel like tarot decks with intentionally selected color included within them is probably going to drive deeper at affecting the subconscious on a more deeper penetrating level. What do you think about that? Oh, your sound's off. — Thank you. — There you go. I'm uh I'm coughing a lot tonight, so I I mute myself when you're talking, but — yeah, it's activating a different part

24:32of the psyche for sure, but also it's, you know, the Golden Dawn had this thing that came out of the particularly the works of Ram Prasad, right? the top of work, the the nature's finer forces. Again, t trying to scienceify, if I can, you know, use a shitty word, um, spiritual things and turn it into this actual physical science. And it worked in some areas, it failed miserably in others. But one of these one of the things with color is that it's not just engaging the subconscious, the conscious mind. That's very

25:20important because that's kind of the route. I was reading some stuff I wrote like two years ago and I'm reading it, you know, in putting together this manuscript for Tria Prima. I'm going through every note, everything I ever wrote. It's uh it's it's extremely extensive. And I'm reading stuff I read like I wrote like two years ago and I'm like I was psychologizing it — and I didn't even realize it because it's like it's so strongly ingrained in

25:44us like we don't know how else to talk about things. Yeah. It makes sense and it and it is a part of it. It's not wrong but it's not like you were saying before. Um I think you and I were having a conversation off topic. there's this particular person who like is really really on point about certain things and then he's just like ah you you're missing information. That's that's what that's really what happens when we psychize everything in magic. So it does affect the subconscious. But what the

26:14the idea that they had was that colors being forces in and of themselves had actual etheric kind of interactions. And what happened was when two colors primarily uh complimentary colors which if you look I don't know if you can see you see right right here. — Yep. Yep. — So that's the uh the munel uh or the early um color wheel in in the in the system of hues. And so complimentary colors are colors that are on the opposite side of the color wheel. They're typically colors that wouldn't

26:52match if you wore them in an outfit. Uh so or you'd just look ridiculous. Um you'd look like the Grinch like the I would say the the the the complimentary colors uh for a particular um element uh the fire element or something like that would be red and green. Now Tabby Cicero has dialed these things down to a munel hue number. — Wow. like there's an actual like she has done such minute detail right moina started it and then Tabby really refined it um and when you put these two it's

27:34called a ground and a charge — right so you got the the primary thing is always the ground so the red is a primary color and you put the green on top of it and it flashes and you can see it — you can see the etheric flashing that's happening Um when you consecrate a uh candle let's say for instance of a certain color you will you will understand that it's charged when it begins to glow in its complimentary color. So if I'm charging a green candle it should be glowing red um to know you

28:13know when I've consecrated the thing. And um so they they they believed that this interaction of color they call it flashing colors and it's a whole system. We create talismans based on this flashing color formula and we work with them. Um they believe that it attracted a certain kind of etheric force. And so, so I mean color plays a huge part if you're working um etheric magic. — Yeah, definitely. I mean, yeah, it's essentially it's an active vibratory force. And it's funny, I did this thing

28:56online that I came across on YouTube cuz I heard somebody mention in the podcast and I didn't believe it. And it was like this sequence of colors that are flashing in a particular order and it literally changes your vision. And so my vision was like [ __ ] up after I did it. So I had to go and create invert all of the slides in my Photoshop and then reverse do it to bring my vision back to order. — That was awesome. — It was crazy though. I couldn't believe it. Um, — yeah,

29:33— color color is color is wild, man. And it but it does do — uh it does do things to the to consciousness for sure. I I remember like when I first started getting into color magic, it was awakening certain thing and I I hated the colors I was working with. I don't like primary colors. — Yeah. — Um, you know, you've been in my library, you know, I like everything like muted, earthy burgundy's, you know, that kind of stuff. Um, but I started working with these colors and it was awakening stuff

30:04and I remember I would look at like a blooming like you know Japanese maple tree and it would like bring me to tears — you know — uh be from the color — the color would overwhelm me. It's a very interesting thing — that I've always felt a particular something in regards to specifically green and red. And I don't know if it's just, you know, from Christmas time or what, but I do love there's something about those colors together that I really love. I don't know what it is,

30:36but it like has a sense of sort of magic to it. It's the best way I could describe it. — Um, — well, uh, the Golden Dawn would agree with you. Yeah. — So, yes, as the reservoir of magnetic force, — you speak a little bit to that. — I I mean, I mentioned it a little bit when I was going through the the cabalistic sephrod earlier. Um, uh, boy, we're we're hit right now. We're just talking about all the topics of my my second book that I'm doing with blue

31:11Allen. This is basically etheric magic in a nutshell. I love this because I'm gonna use this episode as like uh as like my notes from so Yes. um it occupies a medial well it's it's one of the sephirod on the middle pillar and it's in between in in on the cabalistic glyph of the tree of life. Um and it is between uh Terret uh and Malcuth vertically and horizontally it is between and slightly lower than uh nets and hood. So there are a lot of influences flowing into Yod. Uh all of

31:52the um uh higher right if we're talking spatially on the tree of life everything above it is flowing into it. And uh I so essentially it's it's the atheric blueprint of everything. It organizes uh and disposes and really decides what can come into physical manifestation and how. um all the forces are joining there before going before traveling through the the the path of tow the underworld so to speak the lower astral really um which is typically where we dream uh unless we're out of body

32:48uh all of the influences the higher influences have to pass through that channel in order to manifest as as things in uh in physical malcooth of a world of making the world of action — is sold lunar. — So it is lunar. Yes. Uh — so now that's really important. This again this is you're writing my book for me. I um when you take the cabalistic when you take the diagram of the tree of life and you superimpose it onto the human anatomy the way that is done in the hermetic order the golden dawn and

33:29derivative orders uh to enact a species of chakra work but also the what we call the rectification of the sphere of s sensation. We view the tree of life in this system as a map of the universe. It is our image of the macrocosm and we are symbolically and we are imposing it onto the microcosm in order to do energetic work there by way of color, by way of sound, by way of visualization to attract the type of force uh in due proportion that is required to either strengthen the weak or what we call

34:09purify the strong. And yes corresponds to the generative center when you envision it on the middle pillar of your body, your spine, right? Because we don't we don't we don't visualize them in front of our body. We visualize them as in our body like literally, you know, a little bit anterior to but inclusive of the spinal column. It's typically right where a woman's um uterus would be. Now this is the symbolic or I would say this right gender that is the anatomical special example of the principle

34:53of generation which is what I just said about yes all the influences pour into it and out of it comes the material world. Um and right things have to go into it and then then things filter through it and come out of it as some sort of concretized uh microcosm, right? A miniature world unto itself, a mini malc uh a mini microcosm. So there is a certain type of energy that flows through there and it is psychosexual and psychoetheric. This is the center where and this is this is not really talked about very

35:38much. Sexual energy is the basis of all forms of um of I would say cabalistic hermetic magic. necessarily uh godetic, but there is a species of there. Well, there is a school of thought that says the godic spirits are actually feeding off of that energy from you. They're taking that energy from you. Um, and it's specifically that and and and etheric parasites and vampires. They latch on to uh and and either promote, instigate, or just latch on to people who have habits that drain that that excite that energy and then

36:22drain it. So, sex addicts, drug addicts, uh, alcoholics, things like that. Um, there's a very sexualized nature to a lot of those behaviors. I know because I was an addict and I've been in addiction and recovery circles. One of the most interesting things that has ever occurred to me is that I tried to stop doing drugs and uh it was a particular stimulant and um cocaine. And um I remember that I would I would get 30 days clean and I'd have some sort of meltdown and then I would get I I because you keep track of

37:03the days. You're not approximating. You're keeping track of the [ __ ] days, — you know? Like can I like to get 90 days clean when you're when you're when you're a day sober seems like a miracle. Like impossible. like climbing a mountain and uh every 30 to 60 to 90 days in those intervals I would relapse and I asked my counselor what is going on I can't I noticed right I'm keeping journals I'm keeping track and um I said like 30 and 60 days I can't get past them it's like it's like

37:43trying to get off of trying to get past the waves where the waves are breaking at to shore like I'll have I'll have smooth sailing if I can get but waves the waves just keep coming in in any regularity. That's a very good analogy because the moon controls the waves and the moon controls the etheric tides of the earth and I in in she said to me it's a phenomenon particularly within cocaine addicts and we don't know why — wow — these relapses occur in 30-day cycles

38:15— and um believe it or not I made the correlation after a particular Well, I kind of knew what's 30 days. It's [ __ ] lunar cycle. Um, and but I made I really made it when I had done this full moon ritual. Um, and uh it was like I had to leave the ritual because of the images, the mental images and the impulses and the urges I was getting um having vanished and everything. Right? So, uh, the thing is that practicing magic, and here's why it's dangerous. And people who don't acknowledge this and and they

38:58poo poo, you know, they say, "Oh, well, you know, it's overrated." They don't know what the [ __ ] they're doing. It's as simple as that. They might be doing stuff. They might totally be great magic, but they don't know what they're doing. There's a difference. You have to know what you are doing. And what happens in magic is you are raising psychosexual energy because that is the motive force aotus levy talks about it magnetized electricity etheric energy you're building it up and

39:32where is that center where is where is the center of charge and release in the human body of of of that energy it's in it's in yes it's in the generative uh center. So you build these things up and and if you do work in the full of the moon, there is more etheric uh um energy available, right? Typically like any you know any any magician who's been doing it for long enough knows like look if I do if I do a particular ritual let's say a talismanic consecration it's not going to be as

40:06powerful if I if I do it in the in the in the dark of the moon. there's not as much theoretic energy uh as available. I can get better. It's not going to be terrible, but it's I can get better results in the full of the moon. So, the full of the moon cultivates this. And we even see it in growing plants. They call it in in Spanish, I think they call it savvia. The energy rises up. The chi changes in the full of the moon. The energy of the plant drives the moisture upward. So, in the full of the moon,

40:36things grow upward. You plant in the dark of the moon if you want the roots to reach down because that's where the energy is going, right? And there's less light for them to reach up to, but it it's they don't die. Their roots know like the energy the chi moves it descends. It moves downward. The etheric energy reaches towards the water, right? Which is lunar. So these things uh you know when I was having these etheric sort of charges that just built up and I they overwhelmed me completely. Yeah, it

41:08was on a lunar cycle but it wasn't happening on the new moon. It was happening during the full of the moon and I started keeping a journal and realizing like okay sexual impulses are through the [ __ ] roof. Uh you know uh addictive behavior and all that stuff. Um, so if you enter this stuff with bad habits and you just start siphoning in energy, it's only going to amplify what's already there, right? Things like the middle pillar don't purify you. You know, they they equilibrate you and fill

41:37you with power. But discipline is what purifies you. And so that's why Yes. And guess who I learned that from? Dion Fortune. — Boom. — Yeah. — Yes. her. I'm telling you like her her she's got everything. — Yeah. — Everything if you if you read and practice diligently um with Dion Fortune, it's the one it's the one body of work I truly believe that you could read all of it and selfinitiate. — Yeah, it's kind of related. I just thought it was interesting and funny to

42:12bring up. Uh I was talking to my my friend Tom Brown and we go back and forth talking about the moon landing and is it real? is it fake all this stuff and shared different debates and stuff. One of the things he said was uh he said the fake moon trip was also a false clifodic path working from Malc to Yasod another delusional soul trap. I just thought that was a funny cobbalistic perspective on the moon landing. — He called it clifodic. — Yeah. — Huh. false clifodic pathworking.

42:52— Yeah. — I don't know. Interesting. — Uh what is this? — Yeah. What is the sashuma and how does it relate to the seven centers of consciousness? — You're talking about the shushumna. — Oh yes. S u s u m na sumna. — Shushumna. SH or S U uh S H U S H U M N A typically that is uh one of the vdic nadis the yogic nadis. So you have a pingala and shushna which is essentially um you know uh — there's three — there's three nadis. Yeah. Main main

43:37main nadis. The three main nadis people like to uh people will take the the kaducius symbol um of the two of the two you know po polar snakes winding up the the central staff and they'll kind of superimpose this idea of uh of of the the nadis because that's the way in in ka yoga that you get energy to rise. So the shushimumna is the central pillar of energy. Um and it's it's basically it's it's the the the the channel as they would call it in in um uh meridian right Jinglu in uh in

44:20Chinese um uh sort of meridian theory they would call it the channel through which the energy moves whereas the chakras right are um are more the energy centers that pull uh and it's the same thing in acupuncture you have meridians that have acupuncture points on them. They're just pools. Everything in Chinese medicine is is when when you look at Okay, so like kidney one, right at like the bottom of the foot, it's called bubbling spring, you know, it's it's all there's these

44:49names like uh uh um uh uh murky pool in in the original in the Chinese or or maybe they maybe they're using pinion, I'm not sure, but they didn't call it, you know, PC8. uh they didn't call it, you know, CV17. We we do that because, you know, we're like that's the way our brains work, right? I just had that whole discussion about with the academics, we need to everything needs a serial number. Uh but they conceptualize their medicine as as sort of this fluidic landscape. Um because it moves

45:25like water. Uh right, it's a fluid fire. Where have we heard that before? you know, um and and uh and so they they would name these things after after uh they would describe them based on bodies of or types of water, you know, streams, rivers, uh the sea ofQi is in the body as well. You know, I believe that's uh um maybe Mingmen. Uh anyway, um it you know, this is all just stuff that it all relates to me. it it it just relates in general. But so the the the Vadic version the the yogic version or what they would use in say

46:08like Ayurveda is um instead of meridians they call them nadis and instead of uh acupoints they call them um chakras. It's just a pooling a whirling of of energy because this energy it moves like water. There is no other way to it feels like static electricity and it moves like water. Um, and it looks kind of like like a like water if water like glowed when you when you move it doesn't like it's not this hard thing when you move it it moves like this you know it doesn't it's it's it very fluid um if

46:45when you can see it. Uh so that's that's really it's the central pillar and obviously we work our middle pillar exercise which Dion Fortune did some really interesting work on. She had some really interesting commentary on it in the circuit of force. She talks about how, you know, there are five centers in the in the western uh um middle pillar exercise and it we the the quote unquote root of our system is in the feet, right? And that would actually agree with uh Chinese meridian theory. Um you know we ground

47:29we root to the earth through kidney one bubbling springs uh at the base of the of the foot. Um and she says that the Indian yogis, the vdic yogis, they correspond the root chakra to the um you know the perennium really uh because they they did their energy work seated. — They connected with the earth but their ass on the ground. — Oh okay. — Yeah. And so, but she does say that lifting like doing the full lotus thing, crossing both legs and raising those those energetic centers in the feet

48:14slightly higher than the pelvis. Um, she said that she's gotten she writes that she has gotten better energy work doing that. — But I didn't even I never even I mean I've been I've been doing seated meditation since I was 19 years old. I've never been able to get my feet up that high. I'm just I'm built like a box. So, — uh, so this next question kind of relates there there was this diagram in the circuit of force. It was relating the Tibetan symbol system and the

48:47cobalistic tree where it was showing the five sephurat that comprise the middle pillar. Um, each with an elemental correspondence from earth to ether at the top. And I noticed there's like a resemblance to the um the elemental symbols of this system and the symbols that they were using. They seem like they related to the top fuzz except like the air and the water. They weren't necessarily in the same positions I would have thought they would have been. Um I would have thought, you know, they

49:21would be reversed corresponding symbolically. Uh, but that I don't know. Maybe these symbols were just a coincidental. — Well, where where um I'm I'm not I don't I'm not looking at it. I mean, I could I have it right here. — Yeah. — Let me see. I mean, unless you want to screen share. Do you know what page it's on? Do you have it? — Um, I can pull it up real quick. Let's see. — I know she's got all these these she's got a couple of really cool diagrams in

49:48here that I've been I have used for years. I've incorporated into my own uh kind of Henistic system. Right. She's got like the liar of Orpheus in here. — Oh, yeah. I wanted to touch on that one, too. — Oh, it's it's okay. I see it here. — I see one of them. The method method of triangle working. — Let me see. — Let me see if it's the same one. — I got to reread this. I should have done this for book club. I let everybody pick the mystical cabala.

50:21— It's okay. You can do that one eventually. — Well, I mean, I guess I make the rules, don't I? — Right. — I can bait and switch. Um, I see the yogic chakras. See the kaducianus. I don't know. I don't remember what the attributions were. If you want, you could just tell me where fire or where water and air were and I can kind of explain why. — I'm assuming that you I'm assuming that you you think they would have maybe water you might have thought water would have

50:59been like where Yasod was, but it wasn't. It was air. Is that what you're thinking? — Uh, it was Let's see. Water. Yeah. I I would have thought well if the only reason I was thinking that was because I'm wondering if these if the symbols were actually intentionally mimicking the tatvas and if they were in that case I would have thought that air and water would have been switched. I'm going to find it real quick. I just got the document open. Just give me one second. Yeah. I So, so is as regards to

51:34Tata's top ta work was absolutely um the foundations of this stuff. I prefer the five-fold attribution system of along the middle pillar because along you know or whatever you want to call it. I I don't really like there's this tendency, especially with Americans because we have no culture and we hate ourselves is that um uh if it's exotic, if if it's exotic, it's more accurate. Yeah. — Where it's like it's that's not the case, you know, like so I don't I don't

52:10really enjoy using the eastern stuff. Um, I find the five-fold system in that case to be better because it's it is elemental, but also it relates to the Platonic solids, which is really cool. Like that's the kind of energy work I like to do is correspond them not only to the elements, but as Plato did, right? Plato took the empided elements and he corresponded them to to to the solids. — Yeah, that that's really interesting. I think I remember uh talking with Phoenix uh Phoenix Aurelius and he was he was

52:45kind of laying that out and describing I don't remember how exactly he broke it down but it was really cool the empidocan elements and how how they all were depicted. I think I'm almost there. Let's see. Uh it is — yeah it's — okay it's page number 95. — Hopefully we have the same additions. Hopefully it's in the chapter related to um — yeah not seeing it on 95 here. — Okay. — You want to screen share it for me? — Yeah, let me let me do a screen share.

53:40All right. And Screen share. Share screen. — Oh, I see. — You see it? — I see it. Yeah, it's it's it's she's got it like side by side with the tree of life. — Yeah. — Yeah, I see it. Exactly. — So, the it was cuz the symbol like the you know the root the square solar. — Yeah. No, these are these these are the tatas, man. — That's what I was thinking. And then so — go ahead. — Well, that's that's um that was the

54:22basis of their system. That was I mean it was a purpose purpose of one of the purposes of this book, right? because she was very very as I was mentioning in the beginning of this episode she's very very attached and involved uh attached to and involved with theosophical stuff which worked with the you know uh the tata uh attributions and and that kind of energy work so yeah she was in this the whole book is basically this rectification and apology for a western yoga right that's what she calls she

54:50opens up the mystical cabala with I think the first line is like or the the the first chapter is the yoga of the west. That's what she calls the cabala. So, uh um she is trying to do that here. Now, it makes sense to me because um well, it makes sense to me not with the way that she has them. So she's got water corresponding to Yes. And that makes perfect sense because it's lunar and because of the generative fluids and because of the fluidic nature of the etheric energy that builds up there and

55:28obviously the throat center being air, you know, she's got it kind of pointing to dot here. It makes sense to me also because um it is uh obviously you know the center of communication and it's you know it's it's it's that that kind of thing there. — It's also the you know the the literally they call it the the your airways your air passage is the throat. So but I think I know what you're saying. I think it was something that I'd read in Rama Prashad's interpretations of the Tatvas

56:03that gave me the indication that they would be associated differently, but I could totally be mistaken. Well, well, the thing the thing is also you have to remember like these this is what a lot of people forget about about these kinds of symbols. They're not first of all, they're not one to one. It's not a onetoone. It's not like, oh, we found the symbols that mankind has has always had since the beginning of time and that's what secret societies are about. We've preserved

56:37them from literally day one of the universe. That's not the reality of the situation. That's why a lot of people are attracted to this stuff, you know. Um, but ultimately the tree of life is a man-made figure and it was made very late, right? in in like this when when the cabal when the Zohar was written when the sephriets was written we didn't have the tree of life you know and the tree of life has had like multiple different iterations so um and even the tatas too you know so I think that

57:11her entire purpose of this book is taking eastern ideas because they were more popular you got to remember that this [ __ ] is like the the tree of life is on t-shirt It's it's it's hanging on my wall right now. People had never seen this stuff before, but they had seen the chakras. They had seen the tatvas, you know, they had, you know, a lot of that um Indian eastern uh influence on spirituality. I think part of her goal was to make it work in the west, which is uh I think super super important.

57:46It's one of the best things about this book. — Yeah. Um, if you flip to the next diagram, there's a diagram that depicts the seven cosmic planes and the seven universal planes. And so the uh — this is this is another theosophical diagram actually. — Yeah. The like the Buddha plane it says that that is the plane of the human soul or the higher self. Would this be sort of correspondent to like in the neoplatonic sense uh you know the the the places of like the archonic essences

58:19that are kind of gathered as we descend down into the causal plains of uh like mental astral and physical incarnation. — I would say that the Buddha plane is the plane of the diamond the agatho diamond specifically. — Okay. is couched in a lot of analogy but we see in Proclas's commentary to the permenities um his justification or rationalization of the the don being not only this tudilary deity but an interior spiritual reality. Uh and if it is that and it occupiies that it it is and and it

59:02certainly does in the tradition of the hermetic order of the golden dawn the the whole goal and and Crowley completely ripped this off. Uh he called it the holy guardian angel because he got involved with the Golden Dawn and specifically was in close communication only with Mats because the rest of the Golden Dawn temple didn't like him and wanted him kicked out. But he Mathers kind of brought him under his wing because Mats himself was falling apart at the time. And at that time he was translating the Abramelon or at least

59:35trying to get it published. So Crowley took this idea right after being in the Outer Order of the Golden Dawn for a year before he became an adept. I mean that that in and of itself is probably mentally unhealthy to go through all that in a year. Um the running thing is like I feel like you're doing a really good tack if it's like three to five years in the outer order. No, but he he took the idea of what the Golden Dawn called the higher divine genius, which is exactly that you on the Buddha plane,

1:00:06right? The the the part of you that is bornless, you know, um and again, he got that he took that from the bornless ritual. Uh but um to get in touch with that and become an embodiment of that, right? That was the super essential archetype of you. We're talking about embodying super essential qualities. Well, that's the that's the AR the Ary that I was talking about, right? We had that sausage analogy. Um, that's your personal ary, right? That is tantamount to you at the archetypal level. You're trying to

1:00:42embody that because it doesn't it can't physically exist really outside of you. Um, it can communicate with you as if it is outside of you, but ultimately it's it's it's your arcade. It's the god of your microcosm as it's called. So, it's it's not really this exterior angel, although proas says because the the word the word that the golden dawn uses to describe this this this Buddha uh archetype of the self that is is is not descended. It uses the word genius. Now genius is

1:01:23the word that Thomas Taylor when he translated the platonic and neoplatonic corp corpora he used the word genius as the English equivalent of diamond because he didn't want to say demon. So the higher divine genius comes from Thomas Taylor's translation of the diamond in Eiamicus' on the mysteries because the entire reason the razison dete the reason for existence of the inner order at least in the the the adeptist minor degree is theology. It says that in the in the foundational documents in in the flying

1:02:06roles of the golden dawn which were written when the inner order because the inner order didn't exist when they first started the golden dawn. Couple years later there was an inner order but the first documents were all about the getting in touch with this higher divine genius. the rest of it as it descends down. I would say you get to the archonic level when you start getting into the lower astral and the cosmic physical. Above that, you're not in the you're not in the archonic level yet. Um because

1:02:48the the the lower astral really is where these things uh start. Well, the astral in general really, but the lower astral. I was talking to David Smith yesterday and we were talking about uh he was a he like compared like the lower astral to like a really bad neighborhood and I thought that was hilarious, you know, like the projects or something. So, and it's it's true, but um I would say that yeah, once you start getting down into the lower levels of this what is in actuality it's it's a um a

1:03:25hierarchy, a chain of being really within your own spiritual organism. It's an emanation. It's a ladder. Uh — so do you find with uh like the seven universal planes is there a particular plane that you would allocate towards the like which which would be the one of the the archonic forces that your soul would gather its astral garments from on its descent. If you — I would say I I would say the cosmic astral and the cosmic and and the cosmic physical because the the thing is that

1:04:07— the archons work primarily through — so the the stars incline you. — They put on they they they they you put on the accretions but essentially that three-fold bondage that cord that gets wrapped around you that's your physical body. Your physical bo your physical body is the material inclination. The fact that I am a soul that is beyond death. I'm not beyond dissolution because I can my soul can dissolve if I allow highly the material to to to dissipate and and literally confuse it

1:04:46to the point where it can't it cannot recognize its source, its home. It'll never go back, you know. Um Uh that was the whole problem with Plutinus, his idea that like why the reason he was an aesthetic was like look I like the soul can get lost and like stay lost. Um and but it's it's it's the physical body that does that is that final kind of the coffin being nailed shut or really it's the coffin itself. So I would allocate the those the those particular astral accretions and we're remember we're

1:05:23talking about a something of of symbolic significance here rather than like you know um literal completely there's a literal component to it in that these things have objective intelligences but um you know I would say largely it it's more useful to talk about these things uh symbolically um to the uninitiated, but I would allocate them to the the the astral plane and the uh the physical plane. — Okay. Uh there was something really cool that she said about the purpose of the purpose for what ritual is used. I don't

1:06:00remember what it was though. Um but I'll just ask you. Uh what is the purpose for which ritual is used?