Prophets, Laws & the Architechture of Order Ike Baker & Sky Mathis

16:20their gospels, all these prophets were heralding me because there was a prophetic tradition, a messianic tradition, right? They called it Messiah, Messiah, Savior, you know, somebody who's going to come to redeem uh the really it wasn't about redeeming Gentiles and everybody. It was about the redemption of the Hebrew people once they have fallen into bondage because there's this there's this like arc. they're really really good and they listen to Yahweh or L and then or Adonai you know Lord and then

16:54they and they have all this stuff and you know King David comes and beats Goliath but then before him you've got Saul who really didn't you know he he kind of was a [ __ ] and the the the Jewish people paid for it. So you've got this this arc where they're they're following Yahweh's laws and then they're not and it's it's this kind of peak and trough cycle and the prophets always came at those uh you know right at the peak because right that when things are good that's when

17:29the downturn starts you know people grow too confident they don't need you don't need God if you're not suffering most of the time Israel regard he said that's why suffering is so powerful an initiator because We turn to God when everything else has failed. And that's that's the ark, right? So there's there's a lesson to be learned there in some of that Old Testament lore. But the prophets came uh and and largely it was about, you know, the downfall of like that's that's really the thing if you if

17:59you look at I I think I think it's Isaiah. Um but he's essentially where where we get in in the Old Testament the term Lucifer. Um that's not how it was originally written. That's a Latin translation out of the Septuagen which uh is really he calls him uh the the morning light the morning dawn or something like that. But he's not talking about if you look at who he's condemning he's condemning like a a Persian or or Babylonian king. I mean, and it's that's the problem with

18:33being able to quote chapter and verse of the Bible. Yeah, you know the [ __ ] line, but you have no context because you didn't you didn't read all the boring [ __ ] that happened before and after. If you read the whole [ __ ] thing, you'd be able to tell like, "Oh, he's he's calling this must have been a title for this king of Persia or wherever it was." Um because the entire chapter is about the condemnation of that regent of that sovereign that king that physical king and for some reason

19:01you know somebody was like oh here look at this he's saying my how how you have fallen oh uh light of the morning so that you know that mean well no he's everything before that is him literally saying explicitly I'm talking about you this king x y and z. So um that was that was a lot of the prophetic tradition and the the messianic tradition is something prophetic tradition where the prophets are calling about a savior to redeem Israel. Then Christ comes and he says look truly I say unto you you or you

19:37have heard it said x y and z quoting the Hebrew law but verily I say unto you and then he'll say the complete opposite. And then when they ask him what's going on, why you doing this? He says, I I don't come to break, but I come to pleai to make whole the law. So you you what you had was incomplete and I am its completion. And basically what he says is self-sacrifice and what he says is caring for others. And what he says is, you know, eternal salvation um if you want it, you know, uh and that

20:10kind of stuff. So that's the biblical prophetic. I mean there's some really cool surreal stuff in like the book of Daniel in the Old Testament and then you go for again that was also I think uh Nebuchadnezzar right I think he was that's where you get the the writing on the wall uh tech many foxes uh measure your weight and number um and all these very obscure references to like some king's downfall and a lot of it happens when they're in the Babylonian exile you they get captured and then Cyrus the great is the

20:46one who says go get out of here go back build your temple um after the first temple of Solomon was destroyed and they spend all this time in uh in Persia a a a lot of this stuff uh was kind of based um around that kind of story you know uh there were constantly because they had no homeland for a really long time they were constantly taken over by people or entered into these sort of uh work relationships with them. Right? I mean, I think the conception that we have of the Hebrews being the slaves of the

21:22Egyptians who built the pyramid is a little bit of it's a little reductive. It's a little oversimplification because you see that they in in the archaeological remains that they had their own cities, they had their own amenities and things like that. Typically slaves don't have that, you know. So, um, they were able to live their lives and and it seems almost like a like a a mutually beneficial relationship, you know, because they were the workforce and Egypt needed a workforce and uh and they exchanged food

21:52and and and you know, room and board and protection, right? Because Egypt was the most powerful empire in the land. So, a lot of the prophetic stuff is generated while they're in bondage or when they're really starting to to hit the downturn because of how good um everything is. But, um you know, there are lots of other types of prophecy. You you really you see it even as far back as as the Calaldanss, right, which are kind of like around the same time but maybe predate the Egyptian civilization. They

22:25used astrology and they used omens for prophecy. And even now in modern modern magic, we use divination for pro uh pro prophecy and things like that. So, but back then these these prophets were explicitly being spoken to by their god. They were the ones who knew how to do it and that's what made them special. — And you mentioned uh more than 10 commandments. I know there's something like the Egyptian 42 commandments of M. There's like the Babylonian code of Hammurabi and then maybe potentially like the

23:00Hindu vdas. Are these sort of things related um to expanding upon those original ten commandments? Some of them possibly mimicking the same ones or what do you think about that? I mean I h I haven't looked into exactly you know where they mirror but generally yeah they were law they were laws of civilization to you know there's this idea of Judeo-Christian morality as some kind of pious construct of control but and I think we're seeing now the fruits of when you remove certain limitations on society

23:42um how quickly [ __ ] goes south and how perhaps irreparable the damage is and I think a lot of these things right because I I'm pretty sure like I'm pretty sure that one of the commandments was like against beastiality too. It's like yeah that's not good for the continuation of a race or or group of people if they're literally trying to [ __ ] camels and things like that. So it's and I think like George Carlin made a good joke about it. Somebody made a some famous standup made a good, you know, uh, joke

24:13about it where the guy grabs his camel and he goes, "I think I'm in love." You know, and it's like, "That's not what we need to have happen here. We're trying to create social order rather than social chaos." And and that's really I mean, I think there's something like 611 or 613 commandments of Moses. And they're they're laws, right? They call it Mosaic law. He he Moses was the lawgiver. Interestingly, he is purported to have been uh reared and and lived his his uh at least a

24:46portion of his adult life in Egyptian society which had lots of laws, right? Because they had a a huge they had a huge he was part of royalty. You know, he's the brother of Rammeses, right? The the one of the greatest pharaohs of all time. I forget which Rammeses it was, but they were all pretty good. But um you know so yeah of course he would have been the one to like tell the people like okay if we want to do this we want to like stay alive and and have some sort of growth here's what we have to

25:17do. Um, and I I think that yeah, anytime you have quote unquote commandments, there are laws. Here's the thing. Hammurabi's code, I for an eye, everybody knows, right? That didn't come directly from God, right? What people are saying, what what the Judeaic tradition of theirs and also, you know, the a lot of modern Christian interpretation is that these laws were given to Moses by God. And you have sort of political or state laws, they're not necessarily given by God. But here's

25:52the thing. Throughout recorded history, whoever was king had a divine right to rule. The fact doesn't matter if you were good or [ __ ] bad. The fact that you won means God picked you. So anyway, you cut it, the all those laws were thought to be quote unquote God-given, right? Because even if whoever you know Hammurabi or Nebuchadnezzar what have you any of these uh you know Assyri Babylonian called in uh regents and even in in Egypt right the pharaohic lion was chosen they were thought to be god's

26:29incarnate the pharaoh was a god incarnate that's why he was able to rule they believed in things like this things don't play out without some sort of underlying a reason think, you know, we view the everything as like this [ __ ] secular power hierarchy of of power and that's why we're [ __ ] eating each other and ourselves alive right now because of this stupidity. But uh the reality is that there are some mechanism at work underneath the circumstances in life um that allows us to be participants of

27:07divine will and that if you are a [ __ ] king, you have in some way been favored. And I don't disagree with that. Um, uh, I think it's a lot different now with, you know, it gets hairy. My whole thing is that you can be favored by a god. But in my conception, these are the gods as we understand them are the archons. They are the things that are put in place to kind of keep us trapped here. So yeah, if I worship one that does this specific thing, if I'm worshiping, you know, Mars or Marduk or Martus, you know, or

27:50all the same conceptions, this war, energy, um, masculinity, uh, this char brew charging force, if I'm going to pay him worship and tribute and live as he as he would want me to and honor him as the way that he would want me to, because that's that's what worship means. Worship doesn't mean gravel. This is a very, very [ __ ] modern connotation people have in their [ __ ] head. Worship only means honor. That's why you say worshipful in a church. I mean, not a church. Uh um in a uh it was an archaic way to refer

28:28to a judge in the courts of law. Worshipful. Now we say most honorable. Now we say venerable. It all means the same thing. You call the master of a Masonic lodge worshipful master. It doesn't mean I'm graveling. It means that you are honorable. Um so if I give that god worship, which is honor, will then favor me. And of course, you know, Mars is in a war. Mars is going to win every time. So I'm I these are the way that the mundane things are are kind of attached to and influenced by um you know these archonic

29:03threads these strings which hold everything in place and you have to deal with them even if you're trying to transcend them right in the you have to deal with the archons you can't ignore them but you got to step on them like ladders on a wrong until you eventually sort of ascend and transcend them obviously only to come back down Right. But so that was uh a rather long- winded spiel. I hope you're happy with where it ended. — Yeah. Yeah. It kind of seems like a lot of the, you know, different versions,

29:35whether it's the commandments that we know biblically or the stuff recorded within Egyptian hieroglyphics or whether it's the code of Hammurabi or whatever. These things are probably just uh truths and natural laws recognized by their cultures and their societies that stood and held true that they yeah there were underlying archetypes of you know truth and how things worked, cause and effect, things along these lines and that was probably uh what a lot of these things were. Do do you feel like that's a

30:10pretty fair assessment? I think that you summed that up in a way I probably should have. I think that's the case. All right. Um, so I wanted to ask — I mean even like like even like I'm pretty sure Jared Diamond talks about it in his like is just this has contributed to this like reframing of the narrative against uh popular culture as it is in the west which is that's not good either. But I think he talks about how like severe disease crept into the human population by like animal husbandry at a certain

30:57point. That's how like infectious disease was communicated. Uh I'm pretty sure but the idea I'm trying to get across here is like yeah, you got to have rules in place. You got people sleeping with animals like we're we're really teetering on the edge here. And obviously I think at one point, you know, you it might have been like, why do they need to tell people that? But now with the breakdown of civilization, I'm pretty sure you need to tell everybody to keep their dicks out of everything. So you

31:28like people are going [ __ ] crazy. So that's hilarious. All right. So um know thyself. It was written on what was it? The temple of Deli or something like that. Um in Greek. What was the correct pronunciation of that in the Greek? — Notice. — Okay. And that word it's like basically it's like Satan. Is that right? — It sounds like that but it's it's not — it's different though. — It's not related to Satan. Yeah. That that is it's not cognate. It's not

32:04edetmologically related. It's um it's so sass is youaposas means uh I love you. That's that's how you say you in Greek. And seon is like an alternate ending. Um so in other words, like people don't realize this because it got stripped off with the with the Latin and italic pronunciation, but like Apollo, that's not how you say that in Greek. Apollon — or Plato. Plato. That's not how you say that in Greek. It's platon. Platono. There's an N at the end of it.

32:43Um, but you know, things just get paired down and uh contracted over the ages because pallets are lazy like people. But but uh so you lose those endings. So s is related to yourself. That's all it is. Not obviously being uh we see nosis, right? G N O that's an Indo-Uropean actual root to be honest with you that that even predates the Greek. It ended up in that language. So Seoton means like yourself. It has nothing to do with Satan. — Okay. Yeah, that was I was curious about that because I I was listening back to

33:22one of our podcasts and I was like wondering is there like a correlation there? Does that have that etmologically have any sort of similar root or whatever? So yeah. what satanas is like a um satanas is or satanas is is that's so those those words I think actually it comes more it's more like so they share a root you know Arabic Aramaic Hebrew they all share this protosemitic root sitic obviously being you know the people of what we consider the modern day middle That's their lang that's their their um

34:06linguistic root. Uh and satanas means obvious. — Oh, you cut out. — Can you hear me now? — Oh, yeah. I can. You're saying what it means. — Satanis means uh you know the See, look. There you go. I'm getting cut out. Um, satanas means the accuser or the the adversary. So they're they're they're they're edetmologically not cognate. They come from different uh uh linguistic sort of pools. — Yeah. So like ultimately like with something like Satanism, it's I don't know. I think we

34:53did discuss this a little bit, but I mean in the true sense of the world, in the true sense of the world, it being related to adversarial things, would it be seen that to be satanic is to be adversarial? — Um, well, not really. Because here's the thing. We have to define where our standpoint is in terms of the adversary, right? Because if I'm the bad guy and somebody's adversarial to me, they're probably the good guy, right? So I that's an oversimplification drastically, but I want I want to show

35:32like, you know, the the perspective changes um depending on your your subjective relation to what we're talking about. satanic. This is an extremely complicated not only historic but linguistic um equation. And then if you want to get past all all that confusion that happens, that conflation that that that misnomer that that just because it's easy to call everything [ __ ] evil, they lump everything together. Be scared. Be scared. you know, um, when you get past all the historicity, all the academic and hyperrational

36:15interpretation of that stuff and then you want to talk about the spiritual. Right now we're admitting that this thing exists. We got to figure out what it is. Academics don't do that. They don't admit that it exists. So, they're constantly, you know, they're chasing their tails because that's the easy, right? Insight. Nosis is the easiest way to kind of perceive the nature of something. You could describe a [ __ ] apple to me till you're blue in the space. I have no idea what an apple is

36:44until I've tasted it or seen it grow on a tree. You know, something like that. That's just the way it is. So that that's why discursive reasoning can only get you so [ __ ] far. At a certain point, you have to share it get off the pot. Do it, touch it, feel it, experience it. Um, and in order to do that, you have to admit something is real. So, um, you know, if I don't think Sky exists, I'm never going to go to his house to see it. So, uh, but I would say that Satanism is the glor is

37:16putting yourself before everything else. And that Christianity is putting the good of everything else before the good of yourself because you recognize them as one and the same. Satanism is the pull towards material gratification. Feeding the animal part, right? Plato conceived of conceived of the human being as having a tripartite soul. And essentially you see this in the in the the allegory of his fedras, the allegory of the charioteer. And there's a charioter and he's got these two horses. One's dark, one, you know,

37:51one's black, one's white. Uh, and one pulls downward, one pulls upward. They pull in opposite directions. It's the charioteer's job to be able to, you know, pull them into submission and drive them somewhere to towards a unified purpose. Um, and so he calls them the the the the appetitive, uh, which is the animal aspect. It's a part of us. The we in in initiated esotericism we call this the threefold bond bond uh three-fold bond of the material inclination. We are inclined towards material things

38:26because we are in we we are what we are is insoling a physical mechanism that has needs, desires, feelings, impulses. To gratify that is to identify only with the animal. That's why Satan is depicted as a beast. Several beasts. He's a composite beast. It's a [ __ ] chimera. That's why they show him as a goat goat, you know, as a goat. Now, the thing is um and there's also symbolism in in the shape of the goat with its horns and its ears and its its beard, right? Because that is the

39:01inverted pentagram. You take the pentagram upright and it's the holy symbol of the Pythagoreans. It's man the microcosm, right? You see it in Vuvian man. You see it in agria and his drawings that um and and it's basically the four elements corresponded to the four lower appendages. And then the fifth element, the quintessence of spirit corresponded to the neck and head and that's upright. And that means that the spirit, the the rational um the conscious faculty of man which has been

39:31endowed to him by the divine governs that part of himself which is composed of the material elements. You invert that and you say via symbol, right? Because the symbols are the teachings. Everything else is commentary. What I'm giving you is commentary. The symbol itself is the [ __ ] teaching. If I invert that image, I now have the four elements dominating spirit. Um, and so that's why you have this kind of grotesque goat. It is multifaceted. You have the the inverted uh pentagram and then you have this beastial nature

40:10because it's identified with the physical the the part of our evolution which is um which comes from beasts, right? comes from monkeys and things like this. So that's when you're gratifying those things when that happens you have become satanic and the interest and the interesting thing is that that is delineated in the satanic you know they give it's like Satanism light they give you this this whole [ __ ] rigomearroll of secular humanism. Oh, you know, well, we just be kind and let everybody do their

40:49thing and you do your thing and if anybody bothers you, you should [ __ ] hurt them. You know, like that's when we're like, okay, everything just went south. That's that's the dark part that allows itself off the leash. The issue is that makes sense to most people nowadays because our entire society has undergone this satanic program. And I'm not being I'm not moralizing this as like Christian or non-Christian. I'm I'm giving you the philosophy behind this stuff. The images, the the how to

41:20identify this this stuff and why it's been a trope. It's been a stereotype. It's been a truism in human existence. And now we want to w to get rid of that because we we have been trained on it how to be satanic, how to live that way, and we're [ __ ] enjoying it. And then we're pointing our fingers at everything around us. It's this. It's Republicans. It's Democrats. It's [ __ ] Ukraine. It's Russia. It's us. It's us. We're behaving satanically. We are generating

41:49the causes for evil effects. Truly destructive. Destructive. Um really we are burying our own souls. And now they want to stick us in [ __ ] virtual reality and it's become a dream within a dream within a dream. You know, it's we're we're so far down the [ __ ] rabbit hole. Um, but as long as one as long as if if a single person remembers this stuff, it's not dead yet. If a single person understands this stuff, it's not dead yet. You know, you can't you cannot defeat the truth. You cannot because

42:25it's everywhere. Our entire realm here elsewhere, the entire strata of our of our being is composed of nothing if not truth alone. So you cannot kill truth but you can obscure people's ability to recognize it. That's what postmodernism is and that's what this philosophy is doing. That is satanic. It's a religion. It's a satanic religion. Postmodernism. And the the last thing I'll say on that is that people are taking their postmodern secularized programming and then they are entering into spiritual

43:01traditions through that perspective lens. And that's making things even [ __ ] worse because it's contaminating spirituality with a secular perspective. — Yeah. And so we have a lot of people out there discussing things like and they'll use the words satanic ritual abuse. And I don't know if this is based on evidence that always bridges these things with Satan or a figure named Satan or an idea named Satan or if it's just assumptions like if they're calling these things satanic ritual abuse. I

43:37don't know if they're assuming that there's like a physical figure that will the people doing it. I don't know if they're assuming there's like a physical figure named Satan that will grant them powers or whatever the reasons may be behind a lot of it. Um, so I'm curious like some of your thoughts around these instances or uh I don't know if you've gone down and looked in that area or whatever with satanic ritual abuse cases. Um, — yeah, like some Satanists, I don't even

44:08know if they look at things like this. There's like different versions. It seems like they have more of a liberation ideology. It seems like a confusing mess. So yeah, I don't know. Well, that's the what you said right there. That's the key to making Satanism palatable. You turn everything into a confusing [ __ ] mess. You confound people. That's how they're that's how they buy this stuff. Um, now the issue with with with satanic ritual abuse is, do I think it exists? Abso fuckingutely.

44:38And as I've said to you before on this podcast, like if there's if there's something out there like a conspiracy or a religion or anything like that, I have sat with it probably for several years and thought about I do not turn my eye away from [ __ ] anything. It's just what what's being honest with what stage am I at in assimilation and understanding? I'm not going to come to these conclusions and be based on a knee-jerk reaction. You know, a lot of people hate [ __ ] rich people. You

45:07know why? Because you don't have any [ __ ] money. That's why you hate them. You hate what they have. You hate what they represent, which is your failure as you perceive it, right? Because at the end of the day, money is not success. But a lot of people feel that way that, oh, my problems would be solved X, Y, and Z. So you project. You're all too willing to believe that these people are evil pieces of [ __ ] You want that to be true, so you believe it. It's not the case all the time.

45:38The issue is that you know obviously the people who hold power in this world have to have money. That's that's the whole the whole game is money is the economy. That's how they get us to buy into this. And if if we're going to change anything anything about our physical circumstances, the first thing we should do is get off of completely cold [ __ ] turkey. get off of. Doesn't matter. We're headed towards an economic crash. Like the plane is noseding. You might as well just [ __ ] pedal to the metal and

46:11see who's see who and what survives. Okay, that's how it has to happen right now because realistically there is no way of stopping this. But to get off of our current monetary system and not exchange it for something that is the same system under a different name, that's that probably, like I've said before, I don't give a I don't give a tuppy [ __ ] about exterior change. I truly don't. But if somebody twisted my arm and said, "What do we do?" I say, "That's it. Get off of money

46:38completely." That's how they get us to buy in. That's how they control us. Um, and we could we could have four podcast episodes about that, but so I won't I won't go too far into that mechanism. But the issue behind these wealthy families and things like that that practice satanic ritual abuse and even poor families is that human beings are programmable. I've said it before and nothing programs you so [ __ ] completely as trauma. Trauma will destroy you and it will allow the your

47:11your abuser to put things into you and program you. And this confusion of everything morally, scientifically, spiritually is a kind of trauma. It is a species of trauma. We are no longer sane because we have undergone prolonged excessive trauma. the war on terror, the war on Vietnam, all these [ __ ] wars. Um, you know, cancers, you got worry about that one day. It's just going to show up on a [ __ ] test. Even if you're a long distance runner who's eaten nothing but kale his whole life,

47:47you know, it's prolonged trauma. We don't know what's what. We don't know. Up from [ __ ] down, [ __ ] from elbow. We have no clue. And so, we're becoming more programmable because we're clinging to these ideologies and group think. were clinging to the security of of a massive egregor, powerful egregor. Um and and so yeah, I believe in satanic ritual abuse because the only way for other human beings to be able to perpetrate this on us is to be programmed as completely desensitized.

48:24Definitely. Um all right, next question I want to ask you about Eninoian. This is something we kind of touched on one of our last episodes. So I was curious um you know when it comes to maybe practicing calls or uttering noon or getting familiar with the information. We've talked about like the importance of being ready and equipped prior to engaging in Oiana before you know getting into it. Uh but like where is the line when it comes to incurring risk on behalf of the curious that want to explore Nokian? Like where would you say

49:06it comes to the point where you want to be uh careful and to not cross the line where you're getting into dangerous territory or things along those lines? like is it fine to uh you know get familiarized with the language the the calls like things like this or how would you go about describing your perspective on that? — I approach these things with a modicum of severe caution. I will error on the side of caution maybe to a fault. I would say don't practice any of this [ __ ] Don't even

49:43look at it until you have been an experienced magician within either a Dder derivative I would say like like a western magical tradition. But the thing is the the the Eninoian of the Golden Dawn is different from the Incian system that De put and Kelly ended up deriving from from the angelic scrying sessions. And Aaron Lee does a really good job of explaining that in his books, but I wouldn't I mean I would I would do the D stuff before I would do the Golden Dawn stuff because you're not like if you get a

50:23hold of a Golden Dawn Dbook, you know, in book, you're not going to know what is going on because it's way more complicated. um and way more you need you need basically like a college education equivalent in the Golden Dawn system in order to comprehend what's happening why how to do these things. Um if you were to work the the more I guess quoteunquote purist D system I think there's just more [ __ ] that you need you know um which is saying a lot because you need a lot of stuff than Golden Dawn

50:59Ritual. I could be incorrect about that. I've only read about it. I've never never tried, you know, duristian because I heer on the side of caution. I, you know, I'm working in Nokian now and it's like I I'm still trying to be as cautious as possible. If you have not spent, I think a personally I think a minimum of five years in preparation for it, don't go near it. Um, and then I that's me, right? I'm just that's just what I'm telling you. And then because there's a

51:28tendency towards dissolution, these forces are so you're you're you're invoking a current which is so dissolutive which is so radically alchemical that if you have not experienced an attenuated version of for lack of a better term oification, right? The alchemy of the outer order of the golden dawn enacts this on you. You It's a solve at coagula formula. You undergo the taking apart and then the reassembly of the constituent aspects of your psyche, your spiritual architecture. You recombine them under

52:10the opices of the spirit. Ininoian is that like on [ __ ] steroids. So I don't know how much of that you want to try for the for as your first fora. A lot of people are very confident you know but that's you know pride is the beginning of the fall you know pride comes before the fall really um so so I would say stay away from it particularly also if you have any kind of addiction um known or like like acknowledged or unagnowledged stay away from um and if you have no experience with vision for

52:51stay away from I I just would not you know the Golden Dawn system the reason why I like that route is because it builds these safeguards into it. A lot of people say well those are just arbitrary. It's like yes and no yes and no you know because there's this third element or that's there. It's not just it's not just you and your experience of what's going on. there is some sort of for l in music I guess we'd call it sauce that you know is unspecified um and I find that I am able to tell when I

53:24am scrying the veracity of the vision based on the course of safeguards given to me in my training in the golden dawn if you don't have those I mean who knows what you you don't know what you're talking