Circuit of Force, Magnetic Interchange, Polarity Magic, Astral Light, Etheric Charge/ Forces #19

22:29talking about the higher the lower and higher manas mental that's the ruach Um really so uh it's it's really those um those spheres that that the rainbow represents and those qualities their their expressions in color and in sound of seven super essential qualities right that we were talking about earlier. All right. The importance of understanding the dynamics of magnetic interchange. I I think this may tie into utilization of magic and what effect it may have when there is a male female

23:10balance at play perhaps. Uh but yeah, what is this magnetic interchange and how may it be efficiently worked with or utilized in energizing the imagination or arousing emotion or affecting — I like well here here well here's I like I like I like the word choice arousing — I would I this is called uh colloquially polarity magic and um it's a very powerful form of magic And sometimes it's worked completely unconsciously. Often it is between uh very dynamic couples. Um specifically,

23:53and this is where Dion Fortune gets a bad rap, specifically between a male and a female. You cannot work polarity magic with two males or two females. Period. End of story. Um that's not how that works. You don't get to decide what uh what polarity you are. um that's not really what we're working with. So, plus if you're doing polarity magic, you want to embody the archetype as fully as you can. You know, you know what I'm saying? Like, like that's going to make the magic more powerful. Yeah. You know,

24:28you could be a very masculine male and a very feminine male, but it's still not going to be the same rousing of energy because there are things that you inherently do not have as a male that you don't that you're not aware you don't have because your experiential boundaries prevent you from understanding that you don't have that. Um, you know, so but you don't. So, you can't work polarity magic between two men or two women. It has to be male female. Um and you it is uh again

25:00another circuit of force. It's a send it's a it's a giving and a receiving and a sending back out. And it can be worked ritualistically. It can be worked onetoone um in in sort of an it's energy work really. Um and it's it's can also be done as energy work in in a ritual uh in a temple setting with multiple people. You're gonna want to have to the best of your ability an equal amount of male and female. That's that's another huge reason why the Golden Dawn was co-ed.

25:33People don't talk about it. They were working a kind of polarity magic. It wasn't just like, gee, we should let let the women pang, you know, it was, you know, polarity magic that that they're working. Um, it's extremely powerful, but it's extremely dangerous. That's why Dion Fortune went to such great pains and people nowadays they call her a prude you know uh because they don't understand you can't you you know the people out here in the country they have a saying you know I live out here can't

26:04you can't fix stupid but but it's like I I say I'm being facicious to make a point you can't argue with anybody anymore you can't there's no it doesn't matter that people will know that they're wrong and still def and still defend Uh, still die on a hill. Let me fix my camera. — Okay, — it's just the camera. I'm not losing reception. So, — but uh people called her approved because they themselves are likely sex crazed. And you know what?

26:46Anyway, take two. people called her approved because they were likely sexually imbalanced and what is passing for freedom today is really debauchery. Uh uh it's an extreme and we don't realize it's an extreme. Right? Our experiential bounds are preventing us from realizing that it's an extreme. And think about it also. If you are polarized to one side and you're looking at somebody who's in the middle, it's going to they're they're going to look offbalance. If you think you're the

27:17middle and you're looking at somebody who's actually the middle, they will appear to be imbalanced. So, um that's really, you know, the main issue with polarity magic nowadays. Dion Fortune went to great pains, as I was saying, to remove the stigma from sex in her day without becoming obsessed with it. Crowley was obs was obsessed with sex and committed to removing the stigma. So that's the that's really the problem. That was the problem with Kobe. Um but uh so she wanted to raise, you know,

28:01literally, you know, cliche term, she wanted to raise the vibration of people by having them understand the underlying uh dynamics of polarity and polarity magic. um because uh it had been that knowledge had been stifled you know it was like a big thing they believed it to be a big thing in the ancient Egyptian temples you know um they believe that the pharaoh and and the queen were engaging in that kind of stuff um and uh this is all a lot of speculation based but in truth it is a very powerful form

28:34of magic you will see some of it in different kinds of tantra I'm not talking about hippies having sex I'm talking about actual tantric practices, tantra. Um, but uh, you know, the mechanisms are a little dicey because the thing is people are going to engage with this stuff and it's just going to devolve into orgies and that's you're not supposed to have sex. Polarity magic. The whole point, right, is building a charge. Build the char. We don't want to release the charge because every time you build

29:12that charge, if you have an orgasm physically, you ground it. You're grounding the energy. Polarity magic is meant to build the charge and then send it somewhere. Send it to healing, spiritual uses, uh apotropeic uses, which are protective, uh you know, so many different ways that you can utilize it. And if you're having the orgasm, if you're having the physical sex, you are grounding it in materiality. — So, you know, that's a huge that's a huge thing. Like people in our day and

29:47age, I I don't know anybody that I could, you know what, you'd be a good candidate for polarity magic. — Yeah. I mean, to me, intuitively, it seems where it's at in terms of like most effectively building that charge that you're speaking of. Um, is is animal magnetism related to this or is that a different thing? — I mean, it depends on who you ask, right? Because the jury is out. We basically abandoned uh there's there's still there's centers for animal magnetism out there, but in

30:21terms of the mainstream, like we don't have any information about what's going on like animal magnetism today 2023, like we have no clue. So, um, we don't really know. But I would say yes. I I one of the first after I read the first thing I read after I finished the circuit of force was Anton Mesmer's memoir uh the discovery of animal magnetism was the first thing I read. Um and it uh it enlightened a lot of stuff. Levy also talks about it. That's what he was really influenced by when he was

30:57talking about Azot being the magical agent. Azot be this is one of the best conversations I think I've had with you with anybody. I've never had these conversations with anybody before except for very high level initiates. um you know two people you know uh but this is um this is really really significant stuff and like part of me is like [ __ ] do I let him put this out because this is what my [ __ ] book is about for Lu Allen you know like the whole the whole book's about this but um

31:29but so uh animal magnetism was a a huge part of of of it and it was essentially in the west right uh France uh Anton Mesmer He uh he basically through a series of um he was a physician but like through a series of medical experiments he discovered proof of or demonstrable effects of what the east had just known to beqi you know for 1500 years 1600 years you know maybe more probably more than that right the dowist cannons we have that talk about Chico very far back. Um, and he just discovered that etheric magnetism and

32:15then it influenced uh the French occult revival, right? Um, and it I mean it changed everything. It worked mess worked his way into the lexicon of the world, right? We have the word mesmerized, right? Why? Because the state he was putting these people into, they called it smon ambulance. He would do these mag. Yeah. — He would do these magnetic passes on people and he would magnetize their polarity to be completely passive and he would take the active and he taught other people to do this and he would

32:55make them so passive that they would shut down and enter a state of what we call nowadays hypnosis. Um so hypnosis is more than mental. It's etheric. it's energetic and um he he's shutting your your energy off like it's no he's completely neutralizing it to a passive state. Um, and this was the discovery of hypnotism. And but they called it mesmeriism. And then later down the line, I think in like the the the mid 20th century, another guy um called it hypnotism because no means uh

33:33sleep in Greek after 9:00. It's all my dad would say to me when I was a kid. No. — Okay. So some nam some nambilism. That's is that the act of this process of hypnotism or — somnambulism is this the hypnotic state? — So if I were like somnambulism is this — okay? — You know like I'm I'm still aware right because you can tell me things you can put things into my brain but I I cannot I can barely react. There's like no sign of activity. It looks like I'm asleep. Um and that's

34:14some ambulism. So that the discovery in the west of that the cultivation of that some nambulistic state and then not only that but he from use of of uh animal magnetism which in the cabalistic so if you go back to that that that drawing that we had about the the seven planes and the seven bodies and the seven planes that's how we that's the vernacular I've used for it in the book you have a higher and a lower so you have the lower astral and you have the higher astral that creates like 14

34:46planes, right? You're splitting everything. You have the lower manus or lower mental and the higher mental. Now you have that in the physical. You have the lower physical which is dense matter. This actual stuff I can squeeze and pull and hit. And then you have the higher physical. That's your etheric energy. — In Cabala, this is goof. and the etheric energy the higher is nephesh. — Okay. — So they discovered the nephesh and how to use it and how it could heal people

35:22but also right because every the difference between medicine and poison is dose. You could heal people but you could also you could put them in a completely hypnotic state and influence them and tell them to go do stuff. Yeah. — You know so um so that that was the the whole thing but it's been completely whitewashed. I mean, I would wager that maybe three to 10% of the people that are going to hear this have ever even heard of Anton Mesmer and and Animal Magnetism, but it was [ __ ] huge until

35:51the 40s, you know, and then it just turned into hypnotism, which was huge huge until about 15 years ago, you know. So, uh that's the amazing thing about occult history. the occult history is is literally it's it's the history behind history. — Yeah, 100%. Talking about the astral and the astral light in particular um according to Levy who credits Martinez Pasual uh for the term astral light. Uh he says it was the universal agent and represented as the fiery body of the Holy Spirit represented by Baffomet and

36:30the rights of the Templars. Uh, do you agree with this or how would you describe the astral light? — The astral light that he's talking about is the nephesh. He's talking about the nephesh. He's talking about the halo, right? The holy body. He's talking about the the avoades of the the neoplatonists, the the glowing aura. He's talking about uh all of that, the spirit body, the body of light, what have you. But that's not what the astral means today. Levatsky talking about it in the same way. Levy

37:04talked about it that way. I've not seen it referenced in Martina de Basquali and I just finished the audio book for his treatis on the reintegration of being. I've not I've never seen him refer to it as the astral — light. Um although I wasn't reading it in the original French. I was reading a translation. So that could could be in there. But — after after um Blovatzky when Annie Basant and Charles Leadbeater took over theosophy, they claimed to have their own ascended

37:39contacts, their ma their ascended masters called inner contacts. And what they did was they moved the locust of authority from her. She became a semi aqu quasi prophetic figure, right? because it was her, William Quan Judge, and Henry Steel Alcott started this Theosophical Society, and she was the only one who had contact with ascended masters. Nobody ever [ __ ] heard of that before. And then for some reason, right, oh, maybe it's a coincidence, she releases a series of books and now everybody has ascended

38:10masters, right? Everybody, the 16-year-old in the occult section, the self-help section of [ __ ] Barnes & Noble is talking to three or four different uh people who are initiating her in the [ __ ] astral. So, you know, it's what they did was horrible, but they appropriated that mechanism and they redefined her terminology and they reassigned the astral to the imaginal. — Okay? — So, when we talk about the astral now, — yeah, — we're talking about typically we're

38:38talking about the imagination, the imaginal realm. We're no longer referring to to the nephesh, the the body of light as the astral. — Okay. I think yeah, there's this part I wanted to read. I'll go ahead and just read it and ask my question. Um, says the means of perceiving and working with the subtle manifestation of the astral light is by means of the imagination. Like you're saying, by this term, a trained imagination is intended and trained in dedication rather than in technicality.

39:10To the trained imagination, the images that arise are those that pertain or are analogous to truth. to the untrained or uninitiated imagination. The images will be distorted, erroneous or subjective. They will be mirror images of the interior condition, not clear sight of that which lies objectively beyond. Thus, clairvoyance or clearsightedness in its true sense is a function of the imagination. It is the function of the sear. Levy calls this function the plastic mediator which in English at any

39:44rate is not particularly facious term. Alternatively he uses the term translucid which is a little better although we would prefer to use yet another suggestion the diaphane. We might also think in terms of a body of light with appropriate sensory powers of the inner light. For Alphus Levy says the diaphrag is a portion of the astral light that is particular to each one of us. So to me that kind of seemed like the spirit or the divine spark and I don't know if that's correspondent with an affesh. Um but for one I was

40:16wondering if you see it that way and then two if you could say more about this diaphane. Is there um yeah anything more about that diaphra thing. — I have a lot to say but I have to pee so I'll be right. — Okay go pee. — All right. Do you remember uh our subject matters? — Yeah. So I want to talk a little bit about the um the connection between that that Dion Fortune uh is talking about with the imaginal and the body of light. And I also want to say you know obviously diaphanous me just means

40:57translucent. So — um that's what that means. Um, boness is in there, right? That's the Greek root uh is um that means light. — So, uh the whole idea is that you you have to look at that hierarchy that ladder um the planes and the bodies as as I call it. Um each higher one, right? We were talking about this um the the way that kind of mode of like vibration and sending things down. Each higher thing controls its lower. It's the same in the system of agria, right? He talks about the three-fold

41:47world and he talks about how there's the divine knowetic realm, the celestial realm and the terrestrial or elemental realm. Okay. So that's your your your layout. But there's a direction of flow and it's always coming from the higher to the lower. Right? He says all superiors rule over their inferiors and all inferiors are governed by their superiors. Um so that is that's not to say right the entire premise of his theology his reconstruction of emikian theology in the renaissance is predicated on also

42:29going upward right that's his whole thing is utilizing he calls them sigulum which means signatures — the amlicus called them syntheada which means the same [ __ ] thing they were doing the same thing they were they were going up and and it was the higher was coming down Um again what is that? That's a circuit. That's the circuit of force. That's exactly what it is. Thing is it's not one thing, right? This there's a circuit of force between you and your higher and

42:58your your your your spiritual or organism. There's a circuit of force between you and your you know the different polarity. There's all sorts of different ways because it's the same. It's the same thing with alchemy, right? It's like it's it's the underlying pattern is the same. It's the same thing. So I I can everywhere it's holographic and fractal. I can utilize the circuit of force in many different microcosms. So uh you just have to identify where the poles are. You know that's all it

43:32is. It sounds simple but nowadays it's getting a little [ __ ] crazy. But um — is that what's meant by the two-fold vibration? There's a part in there where it's talking about directing the astral light and saying we need to understand the two-fold vibration. Um, and it kind of tied it into that liar symbolism, I think. — Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, it's and it's you you can you can unpack that for like an hour, but to to kind of f stay on point and finish what I was

44:02saying because it it's getting harder as I get older to do that. is um so each it's true in in the in the in the the bodies and planes of that that hierarchy we were looking at that ladder and we should — we should provide that image for people so that they can look at it even — the liar one — yeah but yeah the liar and the other one like even if we just a picture of it — and just put it in like show notes or something because there's no way they're going to understand this without that

44:33visual. Um but uh the mental body right is higher than the astral and so it projects itself down into the astral and it generates imaginative images right the images eventuate in our actions cognitive behavioral therapy as I think so I feel so I act it's that it's that chain downward so the imagination right the difference between is the difference between that and an uninitiated person is that the magician understands oh wow I this is how I can control this you're telling me all I have to do I mean it sounds sounds

45:14ridiculous but it's it's extremely difficult to get complete control of your mind enough to be able to create images in your imagination and then insole them and completely use you build up that build up that etheric charge to literally express that in the universe you know that's the kind of magic these people are talking about. Um, but basically what he's alluding to there is the fact or what she's alluding to there is that you're using the the mental to create the astral image and the

45:52emotion behind that image. And then from there again working downward you can control the higher physical. You can Dion Fortune goes into this in psychic self-defense and sane occultism. She has a lot of early works where she's talking about creating um thought forms and then turning them into autonomous etheric instruments, you know, I mean, for for lack of a better word, it's a Gollum. Um she talks about how they will drain you of your energy if you you know if you create a thought form that then

46:32becomes alive on the etheric um and it exteriorizes itself you will maintain a tie to that. She gives some exercises of kind of uh severing those ties and a lot of people use that now for like I sever I call back all my power and I sever all my ties to every negative boyfriend that comes it comes from Dion you know well her and and they were doing it in the earlier theosophical stuff but this this kind of etheric tie to these entities that you know occultists accidentally create sometimes um — because you can you can exteriorize it

47:16uh if there's enough emotion behind it without without like intentionally crafting this thing. As a matter of fact, that's the number one cause of most fantasms um in like the the outer order, the golden dawn or probably I see it around the most around the zelotter grade, the earth grade is people become paranoid. There's a there's a species of paranoia that kicks in and they become obsessed with these certain like you know this things lurking in the outer darkness and then what happens is if

47:44that gets if that's allowed to build up and they get emotional enough about it they act things actually start being there because they've now exteriorized by by way of that charge right um — their thought forms which are who knows what any all manner of terrifying ing uh uh uh things. — I think this uh ties in nicely to what I wanted to touch on ne next with you're talking about like that draining of energy aspect. Uh the demon lover. I want to read this part. Uh it says

48:18three of the uh when pathological conditions are combined with esoteric knowledge, we may have the rare scenario such as Dion Fortune describes in her novel the demon lover. And in one or two of the secret the secrets of Dr. Taverner stories, such a combination is very rare, but similar principles pertain in the larvae in the larvae that hang around the polluted astral atmosphere of brothel and other venues associated with sexual perversity, drugs, and violence. Again, preoccupation with things of the world,

48:56even in a comparatively respectable sense, can result in souls act souls acquisitively hanging around former habitations or sites concealed concealed valuables. Uh eventually the stars draw up the materially based astral forces which divide naturally into their elements according to the planetary configurations of astrology. With the inevitable dissolution, there can be a struggle as the former vices or obsessions rise up and amuse monstrous nightmarish shape shapes that eventually drive off the misdirected soul. This is

49:39an aspect of the dweller on the threshold which is a mirror image of the shadow side of the soul in religious terms. It is it it is an aspect of purgatory. — That's wild. — That's funny. That's funny because that's exactly if you hadn't finished that sentence off I was going to be like what do you think purgatory is? That's that's literally what it is. So there's I've done a lot of research and work with this kind of stuff too. one of my favorite things to write about,

50:09believe it or not. I wrote something for the uh Theosophical Research Society's journal concerning this. Um I think for for for next month, for November, um it's called Hungry Ghosts. And uh I also wrote an article about this in uh Tomb Santorum volume 4 uh that the that uh the anthology that Sean Woodward just put out. And um if you want to learn anything about this kind of stuff, there's another book. So I just happened to have like this amazing trilogy of books, right? I read the circuit of force. I

50:50read uh the discovery of animal magnetism and I read John Michael Greer's monsters. Now that seems like one of his most outrageous books, you know, like what what's this about? This sounds what is like you picturing like Frankenstein and stuff. He talks about the astralic basis of all of these phenomenon, you know, etheric vampires, the etheric body, um, ghosts, apparitions, uh, it's an incredible book. I recommend every serious occultist get it and [ __ ] read it today. — What was the name of that one again?

51:29— Monsters. — Monsters by John Michael Greer. — Yeah. And he's got such a great writing uh writing style, too. You know, it's like it's just a [ __ ] pleasure to read this stuff. It's like a lot of the occult like Deion Fortune hands down one of my favorites from that era. You know, my favorite from that era. Difficult to read. You know, a lot of people don't like to read her because she sounds like she's talking down to you, like she's scolding you. Like, get past it. you

51:57know, whatever, you know, disciplinarian female figure you have, like get over that [ __ ] trauma because like once you're past that that that, you know, sophomoric hangup, I mean, it's a [ __ ] treasure trove of information she's giving out. Yeah. — You know, for nothing. For nothing, you know, like what I spent like $12 on this book and I like put everything together for me, you know. just know. Uh but the the So that said, with those as resources for our our wonderful patrons

52:26here, um the there's a couple of different things that happen. We talked about the cabalistic div uh divisions of the soul. Talk about the ruach, right? Which are the um the lower uh seven sephirot. Um so that includes um uh Gibbora, Tiferat, Nets, Hud and Yod, right? They sort of fit neatly in, you know, they they filter down into uh Malc. So Yod directs those forces. Malc contains them. Malcuth is the container. It's the vessel for all the forces. They have to pass through Yes in order to manifest. But Malcuth is the

53:19final manifestation. It's the bowl. That's why it's four colors because everything here is mixed. We have that in elemental theory of impedacles and and and of uh of the the Greek philosophers and of agria and of what have you. They're all saying you cannot isolate you cannot completely isolate an element in in earth in in the terrestrial sphere in malcuthia you can't do it because everything is inter is it's it's uh irreparably mixed you know um so that's that's the the

53:57nature of proriti right constantly changing and it's basically insold by the rule Now when the right we talked about this two-fold division earlier of the lower and the higher and you can see that in Malcuth think of the sphere the the the sapphira of Malcou right so citrines at the top olive russet and black the bottommost portion is black that's the physical body the uppermost portion is air, elemental air, right? — Yes. — That's citrine. — That's that's the higher physical.

54:46That's your nephesh. That's your ethetheric body. So that it's divine. We have that the gof and the nephesh, the black and the citrine. When the when the physical body dies, the ruach withdraws. What's lower portions of the ruach can remain stuck in the nephesh if the emotional life of the nephesh the impulses has been conditioned by materiality platinus right the soul it doesn't want to leave you know same thingus saying theergy why because we want to leave if you're conditioned by matter if the soul

55:32is conditioned by matter will not [ __ ] ascend. So, you have to you have to learn how while you're alive to let the [ __ ] go. Um now talking about what drugs talks about possessions, wealth, guarding treasure, emotional attachments, impulsive attachments, attachments like drugs and sex, sexual perversity, these things nowadays that are like, "Yeah, line me up, set my [ __ ] plate. Guess what? You're a [ __ ] slave." You know, you're literally becoming enslaved to the things you you are mistaking as good

56:14because somebody a long time ago told you that, oh, you know, uh um you're not supposed to do that. You've lived your whole [ __ ] life doing that, you know? So, I don't again, right, my experiential bounds are preventing me from having a nosis of what the other side is like. I'm going back. I'm have a knee-jerk reaction to [ __ ] people told me. I didn't live it. So now I'm I'm going to the opposite end. Do whatever the [ __ ] I want. I'm gonna eat ice cream all goddamn day. I'm

56:44going to [ __ ] my brains out. It's going to be amazing. I'm going to drink, do drugs, you know. And people will do this stuff and then they'll tell you, "Well, everything in moderation." The act in and of itself is immodderate. Leave it the [ __ ] alone. You know, that's the whole thing. People say like, "Oh yeah, you know, on on the the the um you know, the uh one of the the maxims over the the Orphic uh um Delphic Oracle is nothing in excess, you know. Yes, nothing in excess, but

57:17that's not an excuse to go do things that are harmful, intrinsically harmful to the body." And again, — don't murder in excess. It's like don't murder at all. — Well, the whole thing is like, you know, don't kill yourself too much. Yeah, — that's the that's the whole thing. It's like in our culture, we're like, you can't hurt him. Leave him alone. Don't say negative things. But it's like, well, what about self harm? Are we like

57:41so morally [ __ ] bereft and backwards that we can advocate self harm? Because it's like, well, that's your choice. That's your right. Still, you don't advocate that. That's what doing these things does. Drinking I don't care what the [ __ ] you say. Drinking alcohol is self harm. This is what it is, you know. I smoke a [ __ ] pipe. Self harm. I'm not lying to myself about it. I just can't stop. It's the truth, you know. So, you know, people say, "Well, I don't want to

58:12stop." No, you can't stop. You know, deal with that. Sit with that for a [ __ ] while. You don't want to stop because you can't stop because it would suck to stop. — But ultimately, it would be what was the most healthy for you, — for sure. — So, well, that's it's the whole thing, you know. It's amazing. Jaco Willing, you know, he says it perfectly. If you want to like look to people in the mainstream, discipline is freedom. If you can't say no, you're not free.

58:39Right? If it's a yes every time, you know, if you if you literally cannot tell yourself, I'm not going to do this anymore, then it's not a choice. So um these things that affect us like this will keep the nephesh here for a while. It will eventually dissolve. But this is the idea of a hungry ghost that they call them hungry. Why? Because they have a [ __ ] appetite. They walk around their net. They're not full ghosts. They're not eating ghosts. They're hungry ghosts because no matter

59:14how much they eat, they're still hungry. That's what's keeping them here. And it was the same thing. That's what they were trying to do in ancient Egypt with that statuary and insoling the ca of the pharaoh. They were keeping his etheric vampire alive of the pharaoh, you know, because he wanted immortal life and they believed him to be an incarnated god. They would create statues and burial temples and literally take the guide the etheric body after death of the pharaoh into a statue that looked like him and then

59:44leave it food, you know, like it's it's it's insane. Um these practices ultimately, you know, uh shortsighted um because it it ties the it ties the ruach here until it eventually it has to dissolve. Eventually it has to dissolve. But you're you you're literally wandering the earth with no you are a disembodied consciousness with no way to gratify the desires your soul has been conditioned by. It's that's a kind of hell. And then eventually when the nephesh finally releases the ruach

1:00:20ascends. The ruach then further um becomes absorbed into it doesn't dissipate the way the uh the the guff and the the the the nephesh dissipate right they turn into other things right the body turns into you know in an archaic sense turns into soil organic matter the nephesh dissipates into energy the ruach becomes absorbed in the nishama um which is divided into the the nishama hyia and yakida and the yakida is that's the part of you that's that is um with the divine so to speak. So um that's the

1:01:03way that happens. Now, the thing is there there are these hauntings that occasionally happen that seem completely like um like like uh I don't want to say autonomous, but it's like it's like an an automaton, something that doesn't have a mind of its own. So, sometimes you'll see you can interact with with spirits, ghosts. I'm sure plenty of people have done that. I've done that. Um, I'm not calling them forth, but you'll see stuff and it'll kind of react to you. There's another species of

1:01:35apparition that is kind of like automated. I remember hearing that there was in in some part of Rome the certain time of year you would just the people to this day or at least maybe like four or five years ago when I was there um I think it might have been Bath where the Roman legions were that created those baths a certain time of year you'll just hear footsteps like like soldiers marching through the streets and nobody knows what the [ __ ] it is. — Wow. Um, and there's there's there's

1:02:07there's plenty of instances like that in like folk traditions and stuff. We call that an etheric echo. And that is something that had was so emotional, such an emotional thing occurred there that it it's it echoes at a specific trigger or a time. Nobody really knows why or how. And it's completely autonomous. It's etheric energy that has organized itself into such a circuit. It's on a loop. That's all it is. It has no there's no inddwelling ruach to it, but it just continues to do its thing

1:02:39until eventually, who knows when it'll burn its energies out. Um, — now the last thing I want to say, uh, I completely spaced, but I I wanted to get it down because like I told like I told you, I'm like I'm using this — to to to really flesh out the book. So, I'm like, let me just get all these ideas out of my head so when I listen back later, you know. — Yeah. Well, before we close out, one of my favorite parts about The Circuit of Force is the part where she references

1:03:11Erns Lair's uh his book, Man or Matter, and it gets into the ethers, which I love so much. And I was wondering if you don't mind if I read a couple pages just because I find it so interesting. Maybe the listeners will too because it just speaks to so so much. — So, okay. By this we are led to an awareness of the existence of the ether. The four-fold subtle condition of matter that lies beyond the three physical states that we know as solid, liquid, and gas. We can tabulate these seven

1:03:40states of physical/etheric matter using the old traditional elemental titles. So it lays out the three levity forces and then three gravity forces. The warmth ether being in the middle. So we've got the life ether, chemical ether, and light ether as the levity forces. Then we got the warmth ether as elemental fire that sits in between. And the gaseous state, element of air, liquid state, element of water, solid state, element of earth associated with the gravitational forces. Solid, liquid, and gas. The three lower

1:04:12states of matter are all subject to gravity with the possible exception of the two lightest gases, hydrogen and helium, whose natural habitat seems to be outer space. in parenthesis. Helium was first discovered on the sun by spectrographic analysis, hence its name. The four higher states, however, respond to a polar opposite principle that we may call levity. And in order of increasing subtlety, they are known as the warmth ether, light ether, chemical ether, and life ether. These ethers have nothing to do with the much debated

1:04:44ether of physical science, a possible medium of electromagnetic phenomenon. They are more in the nature of powers. That is to say, form creating powers that enable the forms of chemical elements, crystals, plant and animal organisms, human beings to manifest in terms of solid, liquid, and gaseous states of matter within the physical world. The ethers that work under the principle of levity are are creators of form. The states of matter that work under the principle of gravity are express form. The warmth ether or

1:05:17element of fire is a borderland condition between the two domains. It has an alternative title of chaoticizing ether in so far that it prepares or breaks up lower states so that they may be re so that they may be receptive to new archetypal impressions of form. At one level this may be seen in the plasma at the center of the stars and planets in particular of the earth itself. At another level in the way a seed brings forth new life into in a new cycle of form expression. It is the light ether that brings about

1:05:54the proliferation of forms. The alternate cycle of night and day gives an aspect of weaving. An alternative name is thus the weaving ether. It has an an analog with the image making thought process of man weaving many forms from different strands of fantasy. An interesting analogy is the property of light demonstrated in a camera obscura whereby with the use of a pinhole light in a darkened room, a whole external daylight scene can be encapsulated at a single pinhole point. This is like the potential form in a

1:06:30seed. The image expands from the from the pinpoint to be reproduced on the screen inside the chamber just as the seed expresses its form in the subsequent growth of a plant. It is these forms of analogy that interest spiritual scientists in particular branches of mathematics for instance projective geometry wherein transformations and projections of forms are expressed through passing through passing at different angles through a point. One of the pioneers of this form mathematics was the great 17th century

1:07:04scientist and mystic bla1 Pascal. Much of the phenomena and properties of electricity have their origin in the light ether which accounts for the similarity of the observed phenomena of light and electromagnetic waves by observational outer outer science. In esoteric terms, it might be said that electricity is light under conditions of gravity. The chemical ether has the rather unlikely alternative name of sound ether which comes about because all of the chemical elements are distinguished from one another simply by

1:07:39the principle of number in the periodic table. Their properties depend upon the number of electrons and protons that make up their atomic structure. Number is also a key to sound and the principles of harmony which of course is part of part and parcel of pathogian mysticism. The principle of form is not merely a question of a body's external shape. It is an inner quality. And it is from this inner quality based upon number that external qualities such as color, taste, smell, healing or harmful

1:08:14properties depend. Esoterically speaking, there is also a link between the chemical ether and magnetism which is observable in atomic physics by the invariance that prevail and energy jumps from one electron shell to another. Thus, magnetic fields magnetic fields are a form of sound ether mastered by gravity. The most subtle ether, the life ether, is responsible for manifestation in physical expressions of all forms, whether crystalline or organic in solid physical expression. Its alternative title is the world ether. This is

1:08:51because of its relationship to the sound ether. If the different chemical elements be regarded as different voices, singing forth a note in accordance with the numeral numerical principle of harmony, their combination into forms may be likened to that formless sound being formed into intelligent and intelligible words. This may regarded as the great chorus of creation. The archetypal forms created in the atheric world can be perceived by the trained imagination, sometimes called the eye of the spirit or what Rudolph Steiner terms

1:09:27imaginative perception or simply imagination. Using this much abused word in its rightful sense. This method of seeing is to perceive not the light reflecting object in the corporeal world but the light itself as it weaves the archetypal image that structures the object. This faculty of perceiving with the eye of the spirit is possessed by all and although it is generally lost after early childhood it can be reacquired by the type of exercises and observation inaugurated by Gerta. Beyond the acquisition of etheric awareness

1:10:06through the eye of the spirit, further training can lead to perception of the astral world beyond the etheric. This entails the development of an intuitive form of perception unto the seven-fold world of extraterrestrial force fields which play upon the earth's sphere. The seven traditional planets that is to say Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Soul, Venus, Mercury, and Luna designate these fields of influence. There is a connection between the seven-fold astral influences and these physical celestial bodies as observed

1:10:40from the earth. But it is not in the nature of a direct connection. Their movements and angular relationships are simply subject to the same higher powers that govern the astral forces within the earth. These seven principles or spiritual qualities provide the impulses that stir the etheric and physical forces into action. As the physical/etheric world was expressed through polar principles of levity and gravity, so is the astral world. The polarities being expressed in the traditional alchemical terms of sulfur

1:11:13and salt with a mercurial mean between them. So I just [ __ ] love that part. But — yeah, I mean that's that that's an area of this stuff that like I just I have no [ __ ] clue what a lot of that meant. Like I'll admit I will admit my complete lack of comprehension in a lot of that stuff. But I think that you're grounding in — Hold on. The sound cut out for a second. Um, testing one, two. — Can you hear me? Let me see. Ah, — testing. Testing. I can hear you.

1:12:05— I cannot hear you. Can you hear me? — Yeah. Yep. — I'll just put it on my regular speaker. — Hold on one second. Let me see. — Okay. I can hear you now. I just I shifted over to my computer audio. So — Oh, okay. — Yeah. I I I think you the grounding you have I think the grounding you have in alchemy helps you kind of like parse that stuff. I also think like the you know this the reading you've done and the stuff that you've done with Doug

1:12:35Gabriel, you know those podcast episodes you did with them were [ __ ] awesome. But I I'd be lying if I said I understood more than 30% of it. But but the the 30% I understood was great. So I mean what what do you I have a question for you. What how do you wrap your head around that stuff? Like what what what were you reading when you kind of were like, "Oh, okay. I get it. This makes sense." — I mean to me it's just like the background forces that — it's just a layer deeper than the

1:13:09elements. Like I think about the elements — and I understand them, but those help inform my understanding of what creates the forces that the elements have in their manifestation and how that works. — That is helpful actually. Thank you. — I mean I love it so much. Uh what do you have for closing thoughts? Anything? um uh buy the book when it comes out, the Louen book that I'm doing, Etheric Magic. Even though I basically I talked a lot about it um tonight, a lot of the

1:13:53stuff that's going in the history and theory section. Uh but this book is going to have practices, practical western stuff. You're not going to be doing the chakras. You're not going to be doing the tapas. Uh I've there are two main systems in the western esoteric tradition so far that have suggested energy work to me and in their descriptions in ancient literature and have proven energy work in their practice and that is alchemy and uh particularly the branch of astrological magic that is talismatic.

1:14:32So um I am uh developing uh a a system of western energy work that is grounded in the symbolism and techniques of those two uh western esoteric arts and that's going to be the book. So it's definitely going to be worth getting a hold of. Plus there, you know, it'll be much more well thought out and presented than just the stuff that I vomited up tonight because of how excited I was because of what an excellent conversation and great questions and insight from you, Sky. So, thank you.

1:15:04— Yes. Also, you've got a bit of blog posts built up now on your website, too. So, I'd say people go check that out. Um, ikebaker.com. And uh of course your YouTube Arcanum with a V. — Thank you. — Thank you. — As for me, check me out on my other stuff, Philosophical Mind Minds Podcast. Thank you all who support this. Thank you all who have purchased shirts. Uh greatly appreciate it so much. And with that, until next time. — Awesome.