Wind, Forms, The Aether, Anamnesis, and th Heptagram Within

35:11other. Okay? — The main thing is that it's all based on perspective. the spiritual warrior Allah Sethian Judeaicnosticism and early forms of Christiannosticisms would have the approach that materiality is to be transcended and is ultimately a hindrance to us achieving um the rebirth of the soul and you know anomnis is remembering. — So I would say the spiritual warrior does battle with the archons, but you can't fight a [ __ ] planet. What you can do is you can fight the planet in you. Now there's another way

36:06to look at this. They can be looked at as prison guards or they can be looked at as teachers. And that's the more you you the the once you again it's the same stuff I was saying about the Cabala about how people say this is it. It's only one [ __ ] way, you know, because we're we're taking systems that existed before we had this this or that mentality. Before we had cartesian reductionist nominalism, these systems were created when people looked at things and realized the holistic truth, which is that everything

36:43has multiple [ __ ] uses, multiple purposes, you know, and we've just we've boxed in our consciousness so [ __ ] badly because of this leftbrained approach to everything that's inculcated in us immediately that it's like, yeah, okay. So we look at the cabala, we look at the tree of life and like this is an ancient and sacred diagram and the geometries show that it is the universe. That's not what the [ __ ] it is, you know? Like it's you have you got to be ready to abandon this [ __ ] and move on,

37:12you know? Um but but not like not treat it like it's garbage. Not just be so willing to throw it away, but not be married to it either. It's the same thing with this idea with the archons — because — you the archons. Yes. Yeah. They're [ __ ] here and Yeah. where the the body is the tomb of the soul. But the whole thing is that you can look at them as teachers and then you could look at them as as as prison guards. You can it could be both. It you could approach it one day as a

37:40spiritual warrior and you could approach it the next day as a spiritual acolyte, a student, you know, and you can and because they have these things. Now what's really important is that even in Corpus Hermeticum 13. So what what you're talking about with the astral garments and all that stuff that's that's if we're taking it on Pfery's word because that's what Pfrey wrote down on uh in his treatise on what is up to us which deal dealt mainly with astrological fate and and determinism

38:08and uh and you know where is their free will right that's why it's translated as on what is up to us what we have control over is that he's talking about where our where our free will exists. So he says that yeah, we put on these astral garments, these accretions, but they're not just vices. You get virtues, too. And it's the same thing in the corpus. You get a vice and a virtue from each planet. That's why they're the double letters of the Hebrew alphabet. — In innosticism, we call these the

38:38— the sizzes, the twins, — the active and the passive, the positive and the negative. Okay? So you why? Because that's the paradigm of duality. It's the paradigm of existence is duality. You you can't just get one thing out of this life. You're going to get [ __ ] both. And then they're going to war with each other. We talked about Ketther and Bina establishing light and darkness and then Hokma being the gray, the spectrum in between them. That's that's the

39:06paradigm. That's the tr that's the the how the one becomes the three and sets the pattern for the rest of existence. — You have two [ __ ] things, right? Okay. What do we say in the golden dawn? Two opposing forces and one which unites them eternally. — Yes. — Okay. So that's the paradigm. So you get implanted with the dual nature of these archons of these planets. You're only and it's you see it in the pyander to the first zone you relinquish your body to the second zone vice lying in weight

39:38etc. You're giving away or greed and all this. You're giving away only the vices not the virtues. And that is how you transcend the planets because you're not fighting the [ __ ] actual star, you know, the moving, you know, the wandering star that we call the the the planet. You are using your willpower really your news the highest part the logisticon the highest part of the self the rational part of the self not rational the way we talk about it nowadays but previously you know the the henistic the

40:10philosophical rational the higher mind higher divine consciousness that we have been imparted with here in our [ __ ] sojourn in this world you're using that to say this is not appropriate and I'm I know what is best in this situation and I'm going to defer to that whether I [ __ ] like it or not. — Then you have choice. Then you have free will. Until you can do that, you have no [ __ ] free will. You think you have free will. You have the illusion of choice. But if you can't say no to

40:40something, you're not really saying yes to it. — Yeah. — So that's how you [ __ ] transcend the [ __ ] That's how you learn. That's how you grow. Um now you know the thing is here that I want to point out is that like okay process yamlz they they gave us this really sophisticated and useful right Emanuel Kant might have called this a mental castle a mind castle it's just something you're building and it has no basis in reality regardless it's [ __ ] helpful

41:13they talk about how there are hypercosmic and encosmic gods okay and this is all they're They're they're they're they're all related to each other. He says at certain point that um Apollo and Zeus or Apollo and Dionis sort of are are other versions of Zeus and they collapse into him — you know or you know they they kind of they're they're part of that that that chain of existence which makes sense because Apollo is a solar god and the and Zeus is the demiurge is the craftsman.

41:51And the terrestrial body for all intents and purposes of the demiurge is the sun. So, and he talks about Dionus, which I don't think I need to explain. You know, these it's kind of a precursor of the the Christ paradigm. Uh they're collapsible into Zeus. So you could look at the higher aspect of that type of God that that that onlogical chain as being hyper cosmic. And so the anagogic meaning once you get to that level on this deity chain so to speak again it's an analogy once you get to that level they're

42:34lifting you up. The god is lifting you up want it's helping you out. Its nature is to purify, illuminate and perfect. According to proclus purify, illuminate and perfect um are the the anagogic roots of these deity essences. But the lower gods as they manifest here, the intelligences of the planets, they are genoggic. Genogic, right? Ge tending towards generation. So there's a certain aspect of all the deity hierarchies that we talked about in the cabala that want to keep us here. But when we act theurgically and purify

43:18ourselves, divest ourselves of the tyranny of the vices of the impulses, then we are able to pass on to to the gods that that are anaggic and lift us out. And the goal is not to again turn into some star fart and dissolve into the [ __ ] this the stratosphere. The goal is to have a gnostic experience where the noose the logisticon unites with the thoughts of the divine. You can only do that by you can only do that by making your soul conform to the thoughts of the divine which Plato talked of talked about as the forms. How

43:58do you do that? You get rid of the [ __ ] vices. Once you have that experience, you can't really talk about it, but but it renovates you entirely. You have a completely different way of being in the world. You come back down. That's that is the origin [ __ ] nutshell. Yeah. Okay. So, it's like, you know, we descend into incarnation and we're spirit that is materialized in the physical and then our work becomes to kind of spiritualize the matter and um ascend or at least prepare ourselves for

44:26that. So the yetzeratic world of formation or the world of forms, the neoplatonic realm of uh forms and archetypal ideals and whatnot like this intelligent intelligible uh blueprint with their geometry and all this. So there's that phrase uh form follows function. And so if if the shape of a thing is based on its intended function like say like the concept of a chair like what defines a chair some chairs have four legs some chairs have three legs you carve a stump in the ground make it a chair there's

45:01not like one only chair if you know if sitting is a function — there's a there's there's yeah there's a universal quality to a chair and that see that's where that's where we're getting into like — that's where we get into the point where it's like Plato's not he's kind of saying forms but in reality he's saying ideas right ea is ea is the is the Greek word which is sounds like idea — um we call them forms but they're almost

45:30formless forms — because they're completely abstract so the thing is the yeteratic version of the forms would not actually be the forms the forms themselves are actually in bria — they're in bria they're in the mind of the divine They're they're they're at the archangelic level rather than the you know and and their roots their roots are in the are in absoluteuth are in in act inside of god with the concept of something like a god form if forms are considered universal

46:03or perfect and eternal. So if if Hermes is a god form and I don't know like Ganesha is a god form or Osiris, they have different characteristics and they serve their different functions like could I just make a god form called Billy Bob and give it a mythology and boom, I have a god form or is it like there's a spiritual force that's underlying um this some underlying eternal thing that we build god forms around them that like precedes that. Plato said something like an idealized form is essential for

46:36understanding the universe and all we see are distorted shadows of that perfect form or something but like so — yeah he absolutely wrote he wrote that for sure it's not in those exact words maybe uh depending on which translation you're using but I know for a fact there's that's in you know uh the republic it's in the seventh letter it's in the catalus — so how do we conceive of the God forms as like they're universal and eternal, but they they all — no God the God forms are not universal

47:13and eternal per se. What they're doing is they're create like okay so there's here's the thing you a lot of people when you say god forms or deity forms they're going to defer to the golden dawn which is great because that's really where that term got popular but there there are other people who who understand the concept of god forms but don't understand them from a golden dawn perspective. So the specifically the golden dawn perspective says we're trying to we are trying to embody or

47:41envision not even envision we're trying to insole right like a talisman micosis we're trying to to draw down the disembodied aneria or or int the usa really the essence not even the the the the energy just yet we want to or the activity of the god we want to that that will come. But first we have to draw down the essence. And the essence, you know, these things are and I I talk about it in a lot of the workshops that I do for etheric magic and the and in the book because people will say, "Okay, is it energy or is it

48:19or it is a spirit that's doing the consecration?" I say, "Well, does the spirit like show up to your house and ring the [ __ ] doorbell and come and and take a dump in your bathroom and lay on your couch and eat your food?" No, that's not what happens most of the time. Even if you're even if you're you're overlaying it into the room into three-dimensional space, they will appear two-dimensional. Even if you're seeing the overlay in the scrying mirror or ball, even if you're seeing it kind

48:43of in the smoke, you are the mind's eye is projecting those things. Most people don't even experience like that. Most people see it here with their eyes closed or they know that it's in the So, so David Ranking calls these astral gateway images and they're agreed upon forms that with which we can interact with things that have inherently no [ __ ] form. They don't have a form. You know, Osiris doesn't actually have a body. You know, it doesn't even have a name. But that that aspect of of of

49:15Osiris or that that aspect of the divine that we call Osiris has certain things, right? Osiris is not a hawk in the in the Egyptian pantheon. Osiris is not, you know, purple or pink, right? He's green and sometimes he's he's yellow or brown, right? Um sometimes he's black, right? because of the putrifaction of of a dead body. There's certain things that we know. There's also certain colors. There's certain implements that the ancient Egyptians drew, you know, like um Osiris wears the the crown of of the

49:57of lower Egypt. Okay. And he also has the uh the um the the Jed wand. Okay. And he's also mostly seated. And sometimes he has the the crook and the scourge. And a lot of times he's crossed his arms are crossed over him the way that you would in somebody. Right? So there are certain characteristics that yes over centuries have been built up. Now we're deferring to the work of the ancient Egypts because we're assuming that these priests knew their [ __ ] And also plenty of there's been plenty of people that

50:32have used these god forms and have actually you've created the astral simulacrim in the mind's eye. You've purified yourself enough, right? And this goes back to the hellistic tradition. I'm not being moralistic about this. They say you have to make your vessel pure. Your your your body of light must be pure in order to see these images. And then once you have the image and it's formulated in in in the way that we work the god forms in the golden dawn um that power of well this is more

50:59so a talismatic image than a god form but the talismatic image is essentially becomes an astral talisman that that is because of its of the invocation you do because of the magic the work that you've done and also because it's it is harmonious to the essence of Osiris or whatever you're you're you're calling in draws down some of its power and then from there is insold and you know it's insold there are many different ways to tell but the main one is it it has its own autonomy you stop thinking it and

51:38you become an observer and it's [ __ ] crazy now that's a talismatic image with a god form we actually don't want that to happen fully a god form is something you're in the golden dawn system you're wearing ing like a like a [ __ ] suit. So, it's astralic and it's an attenuated version. It's an attenuated version — of that god's power. — What's that mean? — It means it's it means it's less. It's throttled. It's not full power.

52:06— Because if it was full power, the deity would ride you. And that's essentially an invocation. You're you're calling it into you. And we don't always want to do that. We h we do do that sometimes. I've had that done to me in Open Temple. Um uh where where our premonator, you know, um did an invocation and I sat as the vehicle. So uh and that's a crazy exhausting experience. — Yeah, you told me that sounded wild. — If now if you did make a god form and

52:37call it Billy Bob, here's what would happen. — It would likely it would likely it would likely if Now thing is you'd have to use it a bunch of times. wouldn't it wouldn't necessarily depending on your natural ability and the strength of the image and the strength of the emotion when you do it. You might not have to do it many times, but if you do it a few times, you would essentially create an astral simulacum that would begin to have its own species of of of autonomy and and a s a kind of almost it would

53:06mimic self-conscious self-awareness. Um, and you know that could be the beginning of depending on where it goes from there. It could be the beginning of an aggregor. It could be the beginning of an astralic form simulacum that is then hijacked by a parasite or god forbid something more malicious and more dangerous. Or it could be the beginning of [ __ ] you know, mental disease, you know. So these things and and and like you in in psychic self-defense and sane occultism, Dion Fortune talks about

53:40this [ __ ] and she gives really great advice like anytime you do any work like that and we do it in the Golden Dawn. If I project god forms like you do in the hall of the neophites as the hierofphant and sitting on the deis as the the the the the complement of initiators, uh we're projecting god forms all over the [ __ ] room. We have to take them back into us. You can't just leave them out there. You have to dissolve their form and reabsorb it. So, so that's that's that's really

54:09really important. Otherwise, you're creating these these weird servtors and phantoms and things like that that now have astric ties to you. — Yeah. So, we have earth, you know, the four western earth, air, water, and fire, the classical elements. And — I wanted to ask about so like wind and air. Do you consider air and wind to be of the same essential n nature? Would you say that like wind is the motion of the air? And like in terms of the intelligent force, I wonder if if like

54:46air is the vessel of the wind or I guess the winds cuz there's four and so — right. — So there there's your answer — and Okay. And then so yeah like the really cool names um — Borius notes suffer I don't know if I'm pronouncing that right but — really cool and so these are like — basically yeah — independent intelligences or are they spirits — well it's it's the same thing that I that I talk about when is it a spirit or

55:17is it an energy well it's an intelligent energy that when we that we can interface with it either as you know like the the Dowist would like and and they call in they call in the guardians of the quarters too the same way we do in the LBRP which is based on the four winds attributions. Uh but you ca you can act you can interact with these intelligent energies as if they are autonomous beings or you can command them depending on you know where you're at in your magical journey and and just treat them like you're

55:52moving energy. Yeah. — Uh and so and so — there are certain I guess types of intelligent energy that are more conditioned to have like a very specific per like sense of uniqueness and identity. And those things you're probably not going to call in with a you know you're not going to be able to move them in a very general manner. you're going to need to you you they will probably respond better if you refer to them uh wi with a specific measure of autonomy and and personality or or or or

56:25personalization. — Um but uh essentially air particularly when we're talking about magic and and alchemy and the occult, right? We talk about the elements of the wise. Yes, there are the the classical or empidian physical elements, but really we're talking about the essences. So the wind is is the earth of air, right? It's the it's earth of air, meaning the actual phys like like some people say malcoot of that means here physical earth like dirt I'm picking up, skin I'm grabbing, carrot I'm eating. So

57:02so so so wind for me — is earth of air and it has its own it has its own spirits. And here's the thing, right? Why is it earth of air? Because it's conditioned with the four elements. That's what gives the four different winds their thing, right? Borius is cold and dry because it comes from the north. Elemental earth. Uh uh Zephirus is is hot and moist. And that comes from the south. And that's our ele we have our [ __ ] whole a gripping elemental square. So what's the fire of

57:35air or what's the water of air? Is there like something similar? — There's there's all sorts of sub elements that you get into in part in in particular. You get into it in Zam's a lot of adeptus minor in our golden dawn lineage. — Um you start out with really anybody that's aware of like the subtvas. — Um — is it like 30 or something like that — or 30? I don't remember. — Yeah, there's a lot because the you have to you essentially you have to make a

58:03deck of cards of all of them and then scry them. Um and and so the sub the subt was also tie into the Tatvvic tides. No there there are there are Tatvvic hours and then within the Tatvvic hour quote unquote are the sub are the subtvas. So everything kind of permutates and mixes like that and uh you know we could we could spend a long time trying to figure out like okay what is — how would these two things manifest themselves physically? um or how would they how would they manifest themselves

58:36briatically? How would they manifest themselves uh yet erratically? So, but um you know, yeah, that that's then we get into like these classifications and categories. But the point is to like this is the way you have to think of them. This is the way that you have to really understand is that like and again right until you get to the stage where you're working with this stuff and you're being taught to use it like this your mind isn't yet taking these symbols and putting them together and changing

59:04them and bringing it's exactly that's the theme of this episode really is like yes we have systems they mash together it's one gigantic mashup but you need to get to a certain stage in your work before you can do that. Now, the trap, the trick is from the time where you start learning this stuff to the time where you you you can synthesize and mix everything, you can't get lost in the [ __ ] woods and be like, "No, this is a real thing or none of this makes any sense to my left brain, so I'm getting

59:34the [ __ ] out of here." You know? Uh that's why my constant advice to people is constantly take contradictory things and you don't need to have them fight each other. You can just go get a [ __ ] cheeseburger. Like you don't like just suspend. Don't think you know it all. — Yeah. — You know, like just have these two competing things, objective, subjective, whatever. You not everything has to have one [ __ ] — you know, one one size fits all. It's so

1:00:04It's so reductive. And not only that, but it's like once once you start struggling with this stuff, you if you can pull back and see what you're doing, you realize just how [ __ ] stupid you've been made, how like limited your brain, right, which is which is, you know, really the soul, you know, the not the brain isn't the soul, but what I mean is like again, there's my habit, my left brain, postmodernist habit of saying, "Yeah, my brain does my brain doesn't do [ __ ] My brain is an organ,

1:00:31right? But my mind is something different and it's a power of my soul." And so like your soul is it ends up getting [ __ ] trapped in these these linguistic programming games. Yeah. And you know, it's another, you know, that's one of the reasons why in the Golden Dawn, the the three the the cord, the black cord that you that you have bound about your waist is wrapped around you three times because it is a diffuse um what we call the material inclinations which — um have as we say in the go in the

1:01:06neophy have bound the once far wandering soul into a very narrow place. — Material inclination Yeah, I was just the wind and the four winds just like stand out to me so much cuz they're just so powerful and like I don't know just really interesting. And then so I was trying to like you know I was looking at like maybe what are some similar things that are really like the first thought I was thinking of like elementals uh like sils, gnomes, undying, salamanders. — Yeah. But um you know I don't know if

1:01:39like the four winds would be considered sills. I think it's it seems like it's kind of its own thing that's like different. — Yeah. So so the the winds David Rankin in his latest book claves spiritum um right he did claves intelligentiarium which is the key of the intelligences. Now he he just released the key of the spirits, right? Because the intelligences rule over the spirits. Um the the um he he lists a working which I actually did. I was one of the people he he asked to kind of do this working and

1:02:18then report back before he put this book out there. um where he gives a rubric for for using for calling on the winds and calling on the spirits of the winds and using that to expedite these deity evocations and these these you know spirit really these spirit right clav these spirit evocations so for some reason the winds can like deliver like that — wow — um uh yeah so but it's a litany of names and none of them are going to be familiar to people who work like uh you know the Golden Dawn system only.

1:02:58— Yeah. interesting how you know encoded within them are the directions like they're orient their forces of orientation um in the way that we relate to them like northeast south and west and um so yeah anyway so after reading your atheric magic book and watching your your talk at PRS last weekend I was thinking about like the vital energy meridians and dowoism in traditional Chinese medicine in relation to the water element because you know we've got like rivers and lakes and bubbling springs

1:03:36within your body and — the nature of how the water element and like emotion — cuz you could have like an emotional issue that will manifest as a physical issue. I don't know if it's related to the aetheric tides and how they act on the emotion and water and I thought like just that subject — was interesting and I wanted to get you to expand on that a little bit if you could. — Sure. Can you rephrase the question so that I can kind of like dig in a little bit more, get a little bit more

1:04:11specific? I want to contemplate the the energy meridians of uh like traditional Chinese medicine and dowism and how they relate to the element of water and the emotions and maybe the atheric tides. — So there are So here's the thing really with it. It's they they're they're they're referred to um not the meridians themselves, but the acupuncture points that run run along the meridians are described often as like types of bodies of water, you know, like like you mentioned like

1:04:59bubbling springs at kidney one, sea ofqi at CV6, etc. um long uh large intestine 11 being like the I think it's the translation from pinion is like uh corner pool or shallow pool or something like that and it's it's it it has less to do with the water element and it has more to do with the fact that the it's a descriptor — and it's describing the nature of right they didn't have the term energy back then they called itqi right which would meant vapor breath and life force but

1:05:32the to describe bribe it, which is still the best descriptions, right? Because the scientific definition of energy is horshit. It's just the ability to do work, which means [ __ ] all, right? It doesn't tell us anything about it. And that's how science, the modern scientific institution sidesteps these really important questions that they they know they can't answer, but they can't reveal that they can't answer it. Um, they give us more time, you know, give me one free miracle and I'll

1:06:00explain the rest. Yeah. Uh so you know but uh but the descriptors and it's not even just in TCM but we see it later on you know we see it all it's diffuse is they're talking about it that it's a a a luminosity a radiant luminosity that moves like water it which means it means it flows. It flows. It's very similar. It doesn't blow. It doesn't it's not wispy. It's not, you know, it can appear wispy out here in the in the in the the the etheric bodies that project outward into the, you know,

1:06:36the the outermost boundary of the sphere of sensation, which we call the aura. But uh but but in reality, it it all flows and moves and feels like this like magnetic fluid, which is what Anton Mesmer called it. Why magnetic? cuz it it kind of it can make, you know, when you when you're experimenting with this stuff, it can make your hands feel like they're being pushed apart or being pulled together like magnets. Um so uh the thing is that there are some meridians that affect emotions and

1:07:12others that well e each each of the main organ systems has an emotion like the lung is grief right. So the lung which starts here at lung one which is deep and then emerging at like lung two here in this this little divot um that is associated with grief whereas you know the heart uh which runs down the arm also long I believe ends in the thumb and heart ends in the pinky uh you know that is associated with joy. So there can be excess joy, you know, excess heartqi would be excess joy. And what does that what does that really

1:07:56translate to phenomenologically or at least diagnostically? It would present as mania. — Somebody who's obsessive and manic. That's what they call excess heart chi, excess joy. Um, and so, uh, so it kind of works like that more so in the the TCM, uh, situation or tradition, but typically you will find across traditions, there's just a higher volume of energy AC or, you know, I I have to call it energy, but really that's not what it is in the traditional sense. Um, but this this ether, this chi, uh, there

1:08:37it's there's more of it. um that is available and you can see it in people. It it it will it will contract and expand their fields especially the inner aura. This little sliver right here um typically more expansive in the full of the moon typically less expansive in the dark of the moon. And there's this kind of there's this other idea even in like biodnamic growing principles this idea of savvia which is essentially life force um the life force. Okay. So a plant will grow upward in the full of

1:09:13the moon and they say the savvia moves upward — and then the plant will grow downward its roots will establish in the dark of the moon. Now we understand that also to be this interplay of whether or not there's light but also like there is like how you know if with a plant without a brain how does it know to do that? Well they're saying that it's savvia its life force — does that knows knows how to do that. It's the same thing in Chinese medicine. Why does the stomach Why does the

1:09:44stomach move downward? Why does the the gestational the GI tract, the gastrointestinal tract, why does it move downward and you eat, digest, and eliminate? Because that's its chi. — That is what it is patterned to do. When it doesn't do that, it's and it comes up excess belching, vomiting, etc. Gird, that's rebellious chi. that she's moving in the opposite direction which means that the organ system is working against what it's supposed to be doing. Okay. Um so the savvia is doing that and

1:10:14the savia is is alternately the life force but it's also connected to the the the the moisture the fluid inside the plant. Now, what's really interesting is that in Chinese medicine, they say the chi is with the blood, right? The chi is the commander of the blood and the blood is the nourisher or the mother of theqi. And and then you you read Bram Stoker's Dracula and you get the blood is the life. — Yeah. I think Steiner has like a thing about etherization of the blood, — too.

1:10:43— He has a whole he has a whole treatise called the um — the occult significance of blood. It's a really strange and creepy thing that he wrote, but I like it. — Yeah. Yeah. — So, when um because you provide a lot of different exercises in your book, too, you know, kind of — Well, and you did you did you did the illustrations, too. We should mention that. — Yes. — Kind of a joint project. — It was such a joy seeing seeing the book printed. It was It's just makes me so

1:11:13happy. — Yeah. And I'm glad I'm glad I'm glad that you volunteered your own body for some of those silhouettes because otherwise they all would have looked like Homer Simpson. So I really appreciate that. — Yeah, it's funny. um when you yourself I don't know if like you have always had uh like the ability to have some of these things naturally be awakened within you or if it was like spontaneous or if it was through practice that you started to awaken this stuff. Um, I'm just wanting

1:11:54you to elaborate like for people listening if they're working through these exercises. Um, what are some ways that what are some things to expect? How how might things start to manifest? Is there like random uh things that can occur if you're doing thing access or something? XSG can you go mania manic? — Um well that's why I I approached this through a very graduated um beginner level approach because there are certain inherent like risks and challenges. The first one being that

1:12:39when you c start cultivating this well the first one being that once you start moving the chi well let's go even further. When you start learning to sense and perceive the chi, you're going to gaslight yourself — and you're going to struggle, right? Because that that that postmodernism that wants to deconstruct everything and that is hyper skeptical, the modernist in us uh want needs to fit it into that specific paradigm of like science. what is comfortable for us, the way that we view

1:13:11the world. We're trying to make it jive with our perspective lenses and we don't understand that that's happening. So the first step is getting through your self gaslighting. And then the next step is okay, you're moving energy. You've now linked your conscious mind to the what was previously latent etheric fields. So what's going to happen there is you move it and equiliiberate it and balance it and move the stuff that there's another condition called stagnating chi where

1:13:37the cheese is supposed to be cheese should always be moving but sometimes it stagnates and you get bloating and you get pain and things like that and you get loss of motion, loss of range of motion I should say. Um when you start moving this stuff around you're going to have a lot of that elemental self shaken up. So in your magical mirror of the universe, right, which as we say is the 360 degree omnidirectional view you have of what appears to be exterior or phenomenal reality from within the center of your

1:14:12microcosm or or if you like your aura. Um your challenges corresponding to that which has been shooken up within you are going to present themselves. Um and so you're going to need to address those challenges. And the problem is like not many people make that connection that the magical work I'm doing, the initiatory work I'm doing, the energy work I'm doing is connected in some way to this problem or this challenge that that I'm facing. So that's one thing. And then the second the other thing is

1:14:42when you begin cultivating it, the next step of cultivating is you know which we do in things like the lesser invoking ritual, the pentagram, the middle pillar ritual. you're invoking or you're cultivating a lot of this this etheric energy and what's going to happen is it it it's not necessarily just going to p purify you. You know, there are other things you have to do to to to sort of you know like we talk about the divevestature of vices and the the acquisition or or the embodiment of the

1:15:14virtues. Let's say for instance that you're somebody who is who has uh an and particularly um a libido that is extremely strong, right? Insatiable. It's in some it let's put it this way. You it's made you do things that you regret in your life. If you haven't gotten a hold on that, you're now going to give you're going to [ __ ] supercharge that. You're because you're giving more energy to what is already there. It's not the middle pillar is not purifying you. It's trying

1:15:47to equilibrate you right along the center line, but ultimately you're pulling in a lot of [ __ ] power. Um, which is why when we start out, I normally recommend students only do it once a week. So, um, and never before bed. Uh so that is another thing and in particular because the phases of moon of the moon are going to also contribute to this excess of uretheic energy. So if you're somebody who's paranoid if you're somebody who's who who does is maybe a little manic manic depressive bipolar

1:16:20it's it's those things are not going away. Those things are going to be given more energy more more power. They're going to become less controllable if you haven't already controlled them. So yeah, there are inherent risks and challenges. Now, I didn't I've not always had I always had an intuition. I knew this [ __ ] was real, but I doubted it. I gaslit myself. I even became a [ __ ] soloopist for a little while. — Uh and then eventually at the time where I like was curious but still had had to

1:16:52res, you know, resolve this, square it with science. Um, and by science I don't mean like the actual laws of the universe, the physical laws of the universe. By science, I'm talking about like what like institutional mouthpieces program us. So I had to square my my viewpoint with that. And um it was really immediately after. So in in the beginning of the week or like on a on a Saturday I had my golden dawn initiation. On the following Saturday I had my first Raiki attunement. So it was right after that

1:17:36that all this stuff started really phenomenologically becoming real. Like I Oh my god. Like it is it is I remember I was watching an episode one time of Neil Gaiman's American Gods. It was like the season finale I think or something. It was the the episode that's on like supposed to be on Easter in the first season. And the main character, Shadow, who's like this [ __ ] kind of just anti-hero, you know, shadowy dark kind of character, he finally just like he believes he's seeing all this stuff and

1:18:13he says uh the guy who's who's kind of came into his life that shook everything up is is Odin uh who just appears as this [ __ ] guy with an eye patch. And he turns to me and he say, "Now, do you believe Shadow?" And he says, "Yeah, I believe." And he says, "What do you believe?" And Shadow says, "Everything." And I like broke down. — I like broke down. I was ballawing because that's exactly the experience that I had had — previously. Like, oh my god. Like it's

1:18:42all all of it. All of it [ __ ] real. — I feel like understanding this is it's linked to literally everything. like the science of behind being embodied. You know, we all have so many wonders and curiosities about just things that occur like physical sensations or energy moving in our body or things occurring but don't really know the nature of why things are doing what they're doing and how to uh mitigate it or how to uh redirect that energy and stuff like this and yeah, it's just crazy. It's like

1:19:28— and I mean I I mean like and and the thing is like we know most of us know that there is some kind of secret like we intuit it that there's something more that we don't that is not apparent. We don't know. Now, for many years, we it like, you know, even still, like it it had to be some [ __ ] alien disclosure or it had to be that, you know, Jesus actually had a family or or like, you know, the Holy Grail and the Templars and uh [ __ ] I don't know, Tim Holan's making gold and you know, I

1:19:59I you know, — covenants. — Yeah, exactly. The Ark of the Co. It had to be something material. — It had to be something material. We desol we devolved everything into some form of [ __ ] materialism. Reductionist materialism. That's what the secrets were. Dan, that's why Dan Brown sold so many [ __ ] books. And you know, and and it's the bloodline of Christ is the like that's [ __ ] The reality is that like it's this part, the story of the soul is what we've been

1:20:27missing. We are [ __ ] It's like we have we suffer amnesia and we're just wanderers in this world. And that that loss of connection, that loss of memory to what we actually are, what all this is, creates this existential dread. — Um, and that manifests in as depression, manifests as bipolar, it manifests as as aggression. It manifests as unwe, right? Apathy. Uh, this it manifests also as like, you know, needing to constantly [ __ ] distract yourself by coming, drinking, and eating, you know, like

1:20:59it's like it there's so many horrible [ __ ] consequences. But the real secret, the real, you know, [ __ ] grail legend, all this stuff, it has nothing to do with anything physical. It has to do it's the it all of it devolves upon the story of the soul and and and knowing of what we are apart and from where we came and where we are going. Um, and a lot of people don't want to touch that stuff because now you're saying something definitive that might rub somebody who believes something

1:21:27differently the wrong way. — Yes. — Well, you know, maybe we need to start [ __ ] rubbing each other the wrong way. Um, that sounds kind of sexual, but I don't mean it that way. Um, — but I mean, what's been your what's been your experience in in doing some of this stuff? Have I mean is is it similar to what I'm talking about or like — I feel like I don't know what to make of there's just so much going on in all directions and I don't know what is

1:21:55corresponding to what and so I'm trying to observe things and pay attention but I don't know with like confidence what is related to what and I feel like if I start to talk in any ction. It would be confusing and yeah, it would just lead to more questions. Yeah. So, — that sounds fun. — It's interesting. It's not. Yeah. is Reiki essentially the under like a lot of that is reliant on this the understanding of how things are working etherically or what would you say some of the missing components

1:22:43are with that? So, master Usui who um uh founded the practice of Raiki or discovered it really but but codified it you know kind of made a system out of it. He discovered it in I believe the 1920s I believe maybe maybe like the late 1800s but I think it was around the early 1900 early early 1900s. uh and he just discovered that he could heal himself, but he wasn't like actively trying to do that. What he was doing was meditating. Um and so in classical Chinese medicine and traditional Chinese medicine,

1:23:25the the physician has to know a a vast materiametica has to know the Wuing system of diagnostics, right? the five element system of diagnosis and permutation, the generating cycle, the governing cycle and the insulting cycle. Uh he has to know um tongue and pulse diagnosis. He has to uh be able to uh know meridian theory, all the ginlu, all the the raiki practitioner mastery sui basically said just get the [ __ ] out of the way. Use these symbols and then get out of the way. Don't think, don't I'm sending you healing

1:24:05light [ __ ] You're supposed to just open up and be a conduit of that universal force, which most of the time means that you're like you're not no mind, right? Like no mind meditation, but you you you're like almost there. You're on this state of like, you know, when the TV does that, you know, like and and that's that's really it. And and you know, there are certain tactile sensations. There's this thing called bios and scanning where you're trying to figure out you're you're using

1:24:33you're working in the different layers of the etheric body, you know, the different I guess levels of the aura as some people might conceptualize to to feel. But that's not you're not thinking. You're like you're perceiving. You're you're waiting for something to for a sensation, for an intuition, for something. And a lot of times images will pop into people's heads. Um for instance like sensitive people like for instance when I was doing my raiki thing we did a distance healing module and so

1:25:01people would go upstairs and their partners would be downstairs sending them you know raiki not thinking of sending them raiki but just actually getting out of the way and then that's the thing and I remember we came back in and we were all talking about it in a big kind of round table big circle at the open center in New York where I got my training under Joanna Cresbow who is [ __ ] incredible. Um, but we were all sitting there and and this one lady turns to her and goes, "Are you a farmer?" And the the her partner that

1:25:28she was sending this this energy to, and the lady goes, "No." She's like, "I just kept seeing farmer farmer farmer was popping in my head." She's like, "I work for Farmer's Insurance." And so — that's hilarious. — So, you know, that Yeah, that kind of stuff will happen to like very sensitive people, but clearly like she wasn't. — Go ahead. I've just I've heard of I've never gotten like I've done raiki, but I've

1:25:51heard a lot of people that have and some of them will describe a really intense emotional releases. — Mhm. — And — yeah, — cuz you're just moving. Seems like you're moving. — You're moving key. — Key, not chi, but key. — Well, cuz that's the Japanese pronunciation of chi. It's key. So, they're the same thing. — Yeah. So, I don't I don't really know a whole lot about how the system works or what the education is like with

1:26:22— that one. That one's pred it's predicated on the on the the fact that like you the body will the energetic body will take what it needs. — But the key is this get out of the way but open up to the higher — because a lot of people will like they'll do raiki and they're like I'm a raiki level four healer and then they'll go out and do cocaine off a [ __ ] toilet seat. And so It's okay. We'll just do Raiki tomorrow to make up for it. — Yeah. Ex. Well, but that that's the

1:26:48whole thing is like if you can't open up to the higher and pull down what we call universal key, right? Universal Reiki. And there's certain visualization and breath work techniques to do that. You are then giving the person who is sick your shitty chi, your unbalanced chi, your [ __ ] diluted. So, so there you know you like in a lot of these things like you know you gota you have to be a master at like a real master not just a certificate master. I took two I took a [ __ ] long weekend of courses and now I'm going

1:27:21blessing people you know uh with the laying on of hands like a this should be a this is a lifestyle. So like say when we're doing like the LBRP it's like a cool like are we bringing down universal key or how would you describe what that is that a different energy or — well what would you — there there's a there's a slight I would say for all intents and purposes it's similar but not the same. — Mhm. Uh, that's because in in Chinese and and Japanese systems,

1:28:00I and and I could have this wrong because I I learned from from from Asian teachers, ethnically Asian, but they were still living in the United States. Um, I think Joanna was born in Asia, though. She wasn't I don't think she I don't think she was born in the States. But the main thing is that like in a lot of these circles we couch it with the divine light and all this stuff. But in reality like a lot of those cultures don't believe necessarily that there is a realm of of divine light

1:28:37necessarily. Um like they don't they wouldn't believe in the concept of like noose I don't think. Um because a lot of it is is I mean and I could be wrong because there are there are kind of ideas like that in in Dowoism but mostly it comes from this nature religion like Ted Capchuk wrote this book to describe energy theory and the name of the book is called the web that has no weaver. Um and he kind of describes how this you know dowist/ shamanic mixture of of ideas influenced early um you know

1:29:21medical thought. It's a whole philosophical system. It's a worldview and they don't necessarily they don't believe in like a a transcendent god the way we do. — You know the web has no weaver to them. It's it's a nature religion in a in a lot of senses. Um, I don't think that's true of esoteric dowoism, but I would say like the more exoteric Dowism and I would say the more folk dowoism and and and that kind of stuff and folk religions in like Japan would would likely fall into that.

1:29:52Whereas like we are using a specifically Judeo-Christian cabalistic thing. We're like I am calling on the intelligent light of the divine to come in. So I mean for all intents and purposes it's similar. I would say for anybody that's familiar with like the west um they are pulling in the world soul. They're pulling in the energies of the world soul whereas like like the the the the the substance that animates and enliven the the the cosmos. Whereas um uh in something like the cabalistic

1:30:34cross and and and in Golden Magic particularly in like the middle pillar, you're actually trying to get beyond that. You're you're trying to get to the light that created all that stuff, the original source. So I I would say that um you know there are probably I would say Dowist practitioners and and especially western practitioners who conceptualize it more along what we're talking about the cabalistic lines but overall as like a teaching and a worldview um that is like authentic to

1:31:03to what was actually going on in those places at these times. I it's I think it's it's for all intents and purposes it's similar but it's not exactly the same. — Yeah. I was wondering like in something like esoteric dowoism if they had some kind of system of like vibrational methodology cuz I think that's one of the — huge things you know like when you're doing like the middle pillar particularly in a group setting vibrating those divine names it it feels

1:31:33like you're tuning your chakras or something they're systems do they have a similar thing where they're vibrating ating names to kind of like a a tune things or — I've I've so I've never seen that or like privately like in a private like ceremonial context a group ceremonial sure but — um I know that it exists uh and there are sounds for each of the organs in Chinese medicine and if you look back at at the the really the foundational textbook or TCM and CCM which is called the uh Wang

1:32:17Ning the yellow and it's in in America it's or or in the angophone world it's called the yellow the yellow emperor's classic of medicine — uh the yellow emperor this kind of prehistoric uh legendary emperor had this teacher and his teacher's name was Chebo and Chebo was this great sage this doctor this medicine man this adept and So it's the the the the Wangdi Na Jing is a series of of it's a dialectic. It's a dialogue between the yellow emperor and his teacher Chebo. And Chebo explains to

1:32:50him like ancient shamans learned that they could um heal with sound. And I mean that is also true in Pythagoreanism. It's said that Pythagoras would sing uh incantations and canacles and certain things to heal people. Ficino also adopted that idea and said, "Yeah, I mean his friends in the Carrier Circle and you know that at the the new Platonic Academy um they would come to him for like diagnosis or or like a a curative and he would give them [ __ ] like hymns to sing and stuff like that."

1:33:31— Uh — and I'm laughing because it sounds ridiculous, but I mean sound is [ __ ] powerful, man. — Yeah. And I think there's something to that with uh cathedrals like organ pipe cathedrals, you know, there definitely seem like they have um very intense thing and like maybe you going to church back in the day was — more of a healing experience. — Absolutely. But and the thing and the thing is like the congregation used to sing. congregation don't sing anymore in

1:34:08in like Catholic churches. It's very rare in the ones I've been to. I'm not talking about, you know, evangelical Protestantism has a [ __ ] distorted guitar and a drum, you know, eight drum that stuff. That's [ __ ] you know, that's that's defeating the purpose. You're you're adding like a sort of a abrasiveness that is not appropriate. — Yeah. It's like it's not appropriate. It's the the tambber is too abrasive. Um whereas you know chanting and and so

1:34:41again we like to think of things in terms of like cladne plates and [ __ ] vibes and and you know the molecules. They didn't have that. — So I think it's a little bit of both. But what they would what they like Pacino didn't give them — things to yell. He didn't give them, you know, Pythagoras didn't vibrate in a single tone. Each of the organs in TCM and according to Tibo and and all these sages have different sounds, you know. So, the thing is that it's not

1:35:17to them. It wasn't it might not have nec necessarily just been the sound itself. Like we would think the vibrations are realigning my molecules or my atheric body. Could be that. I think they do. — But but no, but here's the thing. Yes, they could be that, but the difference was they're imbued with noose. They're imbued with divine intelligence. And so how does that divine intelligence manifest in harmony, harmony, harmonic things, not going — Exactly. But like, you know, like you're doing you're act

1:35:52there's an actual sequence of notes that the mind knows sounds good. — Yeah. Yeah. And it that's called harmony. And that embraces the divine principle, the mathematic principle of ratio, mathematical proportion, mathematical symmetry that is manifesting itself as an intelligent use of sound. So really what you're doing is you're you're imbuing yourself with this with noose. You're you're you're it's a spiritual act that's actually working on your soul

1:36:21more than it is like your etheric body necessarily. So those those are two kind of like you might think them like they're certainly anacronistic. I think that they weren't they weren't like in all times in all places together but I also don't see them as like they can be complimentary and I think in in certain situations they may have been. Yeah. I'd love to see like a study done on the the effects on the human body of different vibrational combinations because it feels like it's not random

1:36:54but it feels like just certain utterances carry out particular effects and I don't know maybe when you say like imbued with noose do you mean that it it the understanding of a name has a conceptual designation or like what do you mean when when — let me actually let me rephr let me rephrase what I'm saying here I'm saying it's actually actually I would like to rephrase it and say it's imbued with logos — logos — so order it's imbued with order — okay

1:37:36— okay and logos is the product of news right noose being the divine intelligent luminosity. — So, and if it — if it has an order to it, — it seems like whatever it is is like that eternally like and it's just a matter of finding it. whatever the correct vibrations are exist and they always will exist in the same form because the the effects that they have for certain harmonies are like you said mathematical and so you see what I'm saying — yeah I would I would yeah sure I would

1:38:20agree with that for sure — so do you think that like the like some of the Hebrew divine names are tapping into that um yeah because I mean it's it's all a combination of it's all a combination of vibration and noose. It's an intelligent use of it. Now would say that that there that there is no noose behind it. There is no order necessarily. He'd call it he'd call some of these these you know nomina barbar these long strings of vowels etc that we see like in the PGM he might say

1:39:02they're a nom meaningless names but at the end of the day there's still a structure there is still a structure and that structure is the vowel basis right vowels are how you vibrate anything really that's how you not vibrate but in tone so in other words I couldn't like if I if I wanted to sing your name and I removed all the vowels It would just be — you know or like or or my name it would just be — yeah know because there's no vowels. So the vowels are how you there that is the

1:39:36order right because it's the shape shaping of the mouth the move — the movement of the pallet that's what allows the [ __ ] word to be actually said — vowels which is the breath right like the breath of god is what brings order to things now you lots of people can kind of like you know just say well no if you move it this way move it like look traditionally there are in every language Every language has vowels and traditionally you can group them into seven. The ruach, the planets, all you know the

1:40:11the the uh the the musical scale, the vowels are tr at the end of the day getting rid of these little [ __ ] nuances that people will throw in just to say gotcha. Yeah. Seven vowels. — Yeah. — Um you know and and and every language uses them. uh you know um so so yeah I mean like that's how things are able to be sounded in what we consider you know traditional language uh at least in the west so so that that's that's how I it's a little bit of both I think um you know the when you're looking at

1:40:48it like the Hebrew language doesn't have vowels written down right the the dog that shows you how to pronounce words that that was a that did not exist in early Hebrew, you know, you had to know how to say it. — Yeah. The dogish. It's that's a it's a system of of points, — these little points uh dots that they put in certain areas in modern Hebrew. — Yeah. Above a shin or or like there's all sorts of different arrangements there like depending on how many there

1:41:20are, where they are is will change the way the pronunciation. So, um, they didn't really have that in, you know, protohebrew, pel, you know, whatever they call it, PaleoHebrew or or even in biblical Hebrew, like scriptural early scriptural Hebrew, didn't have any of that stuff. I mean, even even in like early Greek, there's no in early Hebrew, there's no [ __ ] spaces between words. Yeah. — Like, you just had to know what this [ __ ] said. Um, which is why, you know, priests were the ones who could read.

1:41:50So, uh, so yeah, I mean there's a part of me again that that like looks at it and says there's something important about this stuff. We don't know really what it is and it doesn't really matter um, at the end of the day. So to get and I'm not I'm not saying this to be dismissive of your question because it's a good question. It's a great question because most people at a beginner and even like middle level of of working this stuff, they're worried about this stuff.

1:42:21They're have they're like, "Okay, but like if I don't pronounce it in sphartic, you know, dialect, if I don't do it with this, is it working?" It's again, your mind — is is is instinctively or habitually trained to behave in a way where it's got to be it's got to make scientific sense. You know, it's like we call these things the capital M mysteries for a [ __ ] reason. — We don't know why they work and it's not important why they work. You know,

1:42:50the thing is that I would say the the core component to everything is is belief, faith. You have to believe that it's going to work. If you have [ __ ] doubts, you're poisoning your magic. — Yeah, definitely. Let's see. Well, I've I think I got one more question I want to ask. If there's anything else that you want to speak to in particular, you can. And then my the last thing I just was I wanted to ask when it says, "Let us make man in our image," is this allegedly Yahweh saying

1:43:23this? — No, it's Elohim. — Elohim. Okay. And Elohim is the plurality. — The god the gods and goddesses. Yeah. — Okay. Okay. The gods and goddesses are saying, "Let us make man in our image." Okay. — Yeah. And I'll explain why. My personal belief is that that the old is that the the books of the Old Testament are not nearly as old as as the oral tradition dates them to. My personal belief is that they are less old than like particularly the Torah. So the

1:43:59first five books of the Hebrew Tanakh which are Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. Okay. So those book why right is Exodus. Exodos is that a Hebrew word? No. — Greek, right? — Duteronomia. Is that Hebrew? No, it's [ __ ] It's Greek. — Yeah. — Um and you get a lot of this stuff from this. We our translations come from the Septuagent era translations which is when the Hebrew scriptures quote unquote were translated into Greek during that like first BCE, 1st century CE in in

1:44:43Alexandria in that Hellenistic uh period or or you know and I personally believe and there are scholars that that that are doing good work to show you show evidence for this is that it's this the Hebrew Bible is not older than than the uh than the the Platonic dialogues. Um that's why Cabala is so [ __ ] derivatonic and neoplatonic philosophy. You look at the Cabala and you're like that's what this is. — Yeah. — Yeah. And I'm positive that Plato was not aware of the Jews. So, so, so um,

1:45:22uh, you essentially get in the Tus the demi urge who looks to the eternal for the perfected forms upon which he will base his blueprint of reality. The demiurge does. So, and again, we're not talking about an actual [ __ ] being. We're talking about the part the part of the of the one that thinks that that images the the one right toen is the that latent potentiality that is that is — so within the mind of tohen is this aspect called the demi urge and this is a function — not even not even within the mind of the

1:46:06one is the demiurge — okay the mind of the one so the demiurge a descriptor for the mind of the one. — Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's like — and so and — I always get I always kind of have to re um brush up on this because of like the Sophia and um the demiurge that like I forget how — well people people have to understand this the demiurge is not a gnostic concept. It's not original to narcissism. the demi urge first appears on the historical record in the time of

1:46:51Plato. So if he's the one who's first talking about it, — okay, — then then then obviously the original [ __ ] meaning changed and that happened really in the middle Platonic Academy, the middle platonists started toying with the idea that maybe the mind of God is [ __ ] up. — So like — Okay. And then — go ahead. when you uh you wrote that article and I you know you said like the divine craftsman or something like that is that are you using that basically as

1:47:21a another word for the demi urge — that's what demiurge means — okay — demi demiorgos translated into English means craftsman — okay yeah craftsman — so um but I use that in the in the fraternal review article for the geometry issue that I did um with uh brother Jerryel and brother Gabe Mason Yeah. — And many other great writers. Um the the the the reason why I leaned on the meaning of of demiurge is because the masonry is based on that that God is a

1:47:53craftsman and we're his builders and and and the idea we call God in masonry the great architect of the universe. It's it's very tyan. It's very platonic. That's why I was leaning I was showing that word so often. It's not just a a a word that I'm invent literally. It's the meaning of the word demiurge. So, so, so because the demiurge thinks things into creation and that's the mind of the one. It's the aspect of the mind, the aspect of the one which is intellective and be

1:48:22and what that means is it begins to project and isolate these ideas which are abstract. They're universals. They're the they're the essence. They're the roots of the universals. But so, the demiurge doesn't make creation. The demiierge makes the blueprint of creation. And he takes what he calls the circle of or the circuit of the same and the circuit of the different and he — puts them together like this — and then the middle the middle nature the third thing emerges from it and he

1:48:52calls this the paradigm of time this is how time will work right because that's what the the the the essence of the universe is just time um and so he calls this right time requires what time requires because time is is doesn't actually exist That's why we can't go backwards in it and we can't go forwards in it. We can only be where we are. There's an everpresent now. Time is a way in which we measure change. Change requires what? A space to move in. — For instance,

1:49:23— a lot of people So, a lot of people, well, no, because if they put if they put you in Saran Wrap, you'd [ __ ] change and age. It's like, yeah, but you you're an idiot because there's still space. That's how my body is able to occupy anything is that there's space. I'm talking about zero space. This is where people [ __ ] up in their mental imaging of stuff. Like talk about the big bang. Most people when you say, "Okay, picture the big bang, right? Take

1:49:43it. Do it yourself real quick. Don't say nothing. Just picture it." — Yeah. — And anybody listening picture the big bang. So most people will picture empty vacant space, a blackness, and something exploding. — Wrong. Because that includes space before the Big Bang which didn't exist. So your mental imaging is [ __ ] — Okay. So, so there's no space, there's no change, there's no time. That's why it's spacetime. — That's why they work together. Okay. So,

1:50:14the and this is and this is it's important because this is I'm about to tell you what time what Plato's time calls the blueprint of the universe. — It's called the moving the moving image of eternity. — The moving image of eternity. — Eternity is outside of space and therefore outside of time. So, — so if it's the if it's the moving image of eternity, it's taking the contents of eternity which are which exists simultaneously and are essentially

1:50:48nothing because it's everything that ever has been is ever could be or ever will be all at the same time um in the one. And now you're taking that you're making it linear. So it's the moving image of eternity and and what he bas what he what he was doing in putting the circle of the same and the circle of the different together if you draw it out is he's making the terrestrial equator and the celestial ecliptic which for ancient peoples was time and related to what the movements of the planets right they

1:51:19didn't have [ __ ] Rolexes and time X's and and things on and clocks on the wall a day is based on the sun a year is based on the sun a month is based on the moon. We know that the Nile's going to [ __ ] flood and inundate and give us rich crops and the silt of the good soil when Sirius comes over this horizon and Venus is here. So that's how they viewed time. That's how they viewed the universal logos, the universal order. And the demi urge creates the paradigm, the blueprint of that. And then he makes

1:51:51the he makes the celestial deities and he says you finish it. And we get the same thing with the Elohim making the universe and making man. And we get the same thing in the apocryphon of John and the hypotheses of the archons, the gnostic apocryphon where they're talking about how the demiers didn't make creation. Demiier didn't make man. He he assigned that to the planetary deities, the archons. Well, when so in a particular Gnostic cosmology of the demiurge repenting to something higher,

1:52:26is that sect borrowing, you know, the terminology from the time and adapting their own spin on it or like cuz if if the demiurge is the the the mind, what would you call the thing that he's that the demiurge is repenting to that's higher than him? You know, like um — so remember how I said — conceptually — remember remember how I said the demi urge turned and looked at the eternal forms that he would then base. — Yes. — Okay. So that means that those eternal

1:53:06forms, those perfect forms were not the demi urge but preceded him. And what did we call that order, that beautiful divine order? We called it logos. What does the gospel of John say? In the beginning was the logos, the word and the word was with God and the word was God. Nothing that was made was made you know talking about that and then it it ends with and the you know event that whole line of reasoning ends eventuates with and the word became flesh. So the demi divine the divine the divine logos

1:53:42the divine order that the demiurge used became Christ. So it's like the demiurge was con the most conscious and capable consciousness that created the world and then like other everything. — Well, here's here's the thing. Here's what I want to tell you about this. If you're trying to reconcile the Gnostic demi-urge with the original Platonic demi- urge, you're not going to do it. — Because again, like they're not the same thing. — Okay? — There's there's there's like

1:54:33300 there's like almost 500 years — in between — in in between Plato's time and the Gnostics. Okay. 500 [ __ ] half a millennium. — So that's a long time for the academics and the middle platonists and the neoplatanists to [ __ ] with that idea and turn it into something that Plato did not intend it to to mean. So and again it's just because those people at that time were looking at creation with a with a certain cynicism that Plato did not have. — Yeah. They looked at the divine and they

1:55:08resented it and they said, "Well, a truly perfect being could not create something where like things need to [ __ ] eat each other and consume each other in pain and death in order to to to to just survive, you know, and it's like, you know, so then there's there's this kind of like blasphemy against the fundamental law of Plato, which which is that the demiurge is the one or or it's the aspect of the one which essentially is for all intents and purposes the one we can talk about,

1:55:40right? And it's also the good and it is there's nothing. It has no lack, no want and no imperfection. — Whereas on the other hand, you have these people who are like, well, whatever created this is clearly imperfect. — No lack. — And so there must there — there must be a higher, more perfect thing that this demi urge doesn't know exists, is ignorant of. Um, and that works in a certain conceptual model. It's very human to think that we know what an infinite mind really

1:56:13considers good. Um, — Plato left that term good — more ambiguous than the Gnostics. Plato left it ab abstract. He was like, "Good." What do like he So, this is the difference. I'll tell you exactly what the difference is for anybody that's listening. And this excites me because I've never put it this way before. Plato said that all good on earth is a product of the infinite good of the demiurge. It's a special example. So he orients the idea of good in the

1:56:49demiurge in the intellective capacity of the one and then the trickle down the way it trickles into materiality gives us human good whereas the gnostics said they oriented the locust of good here and said — they said that thing's [ __ ] up because we know what good is human good is good — is so the gnostics turn it on their [ __ ] head and that's why they that's why a lot of people like Platinus were like you guys are [ __ ] retards. — Yeah, I like that version a lot better.

1:57:24I'm going to go with that one for sure. — But the thing is there's there's a certain way to look at it from both perspectives. It's just that — you need to be able to toggle between both when necessary. So the biblical is like even a different perspective because if there's no lack and no one no imperfections that's not Yahweh because Yahweh — yeah certainly not. So — certainly not. Well, well, and here's the thing, you know, the what Plato says

1:57:53that that the demi he doesn't say necessarily that the demi urge wants. He says that that that the good or the one has a nature and that nature is beneficent, — right? Yeah. — And so, but we we see really that that the the the God of the Old Testament is actually of a dual nature. He's beneficent and also maleficent. You piss him off, he's going to kill you, your family. He's going to sew the earth with salt. You guys are going to your whole town's going to turn to turn to stone.

1:58:28Now, Christ in appearing in the New Testament, remembering that that Christianity is really something that's henistic more than it is Hebrew, returns to the idea that the one is good. It becomes more platonic. Yeah. Damn. Sweet. Okay. Is there anything else you want to throw out there before we wrap it up? That was really a good way to got me thinking. Yeah. Well, it this it felt good. This was like uh I felt like, you know, you and I I can't really get into things with anyone else the way I can get into

1:59:08them with you. So, I felt a little backed up. — Yeah. — You know, so — and I like I loved the fact that we were kind of all over the place. It all made sense together, though. — Yeah, for sure. — Um and it'll I think it'll make an interesting conversation. So, thanks to everybody who's listened to this again. And I know it's been a while, but hopefully we can do a couple more of these. And um and yeah, what you have anything else? — Um I don't think so.

1:59:36I was going to say you're doing a pod with Fred RC, but that's tomorrow and I don't know if I'll get this out in time to let people know, but um — yeah, — that's cool. So, aside from that, what is uh coming up next in terms of travels, uh books, um what you're working on or what you're excited about? — Um direct people to contemplate. — Uh well, for more kind of info on specifically etheric magic, I did a talk with the book. I did a talk with Miguel

2:00:20Connor on Bitenostic Radio that's up and we went pretty we went pretty deep on that. So if anybody really wants to dig into some of the stuff in that book you can listen to that. Um I uh I did also a a deep dive on the topic with Stephanie Sheay of the Rejected Religion podcast. I'm not sure that that's up. It may be up by the time this goes out, but keep checking her channel because she's doing great work. um travels. Uh so July 11th through the 13th, I believe, I'm going to be at

2:00:53Mystic South, which is um I think the largest southeastern, you know, sort of pagan and and magical and occult conference in the country. Uh so I'll be doing a talk there on etheric magic. That's going to be that Sunday. Um for anybody that's interested in going to that, I highly — gonna be a mix of characters. — It is. It is. But you know what the thing is though like some of my favorite authors like of all time are going to are are are there you know like like Evo for instance who wrote the forward to

2:01:24her magic like you would be as a practitioner — who is serious about what they do — you are going to be hardressed to find somebody whose works are more valuable. Evo Dominguez Jr's works have have really given me um such a [ __ ] strong foundation and such an advantage. What's one that you would recommend to myself or the people listening that of his work? — So, so there's two that come directly to mind that are related to like work that I think people listen who listen to this

2:01:57podcast would do. The first would be uh um uh keys of perception and that's going to focus more on um meditative and contemplative practices that reorient you to the idea of what it means to do these things. You are literally like what Evo calls polishing the mirror of the mind which we know is is the soul. — Uh and you're these practices are going to help you tap into these you know and awaken these powers in yourself. Um but then he he's he's he's a student of the Cabala and um uh you know from the the

2:02:35Dolores Ashcrooft Noiki kind of affiliated um he had another teacher but I don't I don't know if he like wants I don't know if he's vocal about like who she is. I I can't remember, but um so I'm not going to say yet. But uh and so he he comes from this like really strong cabalistic background and his guard rails are really tight, you know, like he's not somebody who's going to tell you to do foolish things, — uh dangerous things. Um so that or um practical astrology for witches and

2:03:06pagans is one of the best books on magical astrology I've ever read in my life. So, I still go back to that and it's incredible and there's a wealth of exercises and it's all — it explains how this [ __ ] works if you're going to put it into practice. So, so like Eva will be there, I'll be there. Uh, Mavius Lynn is going to be there. She's [ __ ] great. She's more from the phmic crowd, but she's like one of the themic practitioners who I like really under like I get where she's

2:03:33coming from and she's not like trying to she's not trying to like [ __ ] on the Golden Dawn cuz she belonged to a Golden Dawn uh temple as well. And like she just knows like okay this is what I like and then it's it's not like the end all be all. like a lot of a lot of phymic practitioners get like caught up in that cult of Crowley and they try and [ __ ] either fight fight you or convert you. Um, and — she's not really like that. So, I mean, just look go on the website because it's

2:04:00[ __ ] awesome. But what's going to be interesting too is I'm going to zoom in to In Nokia for a presentation um on the history, theory, and practice of angelic magic in the West. Uh, one of those days. I don't know that I have a date yet, but um I'll definitely post it when I do. Uh then I'm going to Maryland at the end of the month, but that's kind of a closed convocation for um for for the Martinist order uh that I'm that I'm involved with. And I'll be doing a um a

2:04:29presentation there uh on the theology of Martina de Pasquali and uh you know um — and are those — the that presentation is that going to be made on publicly available online? — No, but what I'll do for like Patreon subscribers Yeah. is uh before I go I'll just do the talk and then put it up on my Patreon. That be something interested in. — Yeah. because this is a closed event, you know, it's like like quote unquote tiled. It's private. So, — I will I will the the lecture can be

2:05:06given to anybody. So, I'll I'll do do the you know the untitled version uh and put up on my Patreon and then working on three books and then one commentary. So, four all told. — Damn. — Uh yeah, can't say too much about them. One of them is a book on um mythology. Actually I think I can announce that I'm doing that with inner traditions. It's a book uh so far the working title is called mythology uh an exoteric examination of ancient and modern mythopoesis and meaning. So

2:05:39it's basically taking the ancient myths in in the Greek tradition, in the Egyptian tradition, in the Roman tradition, in the Celtic tradition or Norse tradition, in the Dowist tradition, and showing what the sages and philosophers of those systems had to say about the mythology and showing that it's not just these folk [ __ ] fairy tales. It's like they these are ways that they were this was their divine science. They were talking about how all this [ __ ] works. Um, but they they put

2:06:06it mythologically because once you understand the keys to it, it makes more sense to talk about it. It like the myths are just like, "Oh, I get it now." You know, rather than all the philosophical jargon. So, that's a book kind of talking about that. And also, I deal with like modern myths at the end of it. Um, like Tolken, uh, JK Rowling, um, George Lucas, just their modern mythologies. And uh you know any later than that and you start to get into a different kind of myth that that

2:06:34personally I think is new — and and I think is novel and I think is a product of of of of existential boredom and is not good — for the human soul and the human environment. So so I I I don't want to talk about those. Um and then uh the other book is a uh practical manual on initiatory and ceremonial theology that takes you all the way from the eambleian curriculum of the platonic dialogues through all of the proclan theology and all of the ambleian uh you know um theory and stuff like that and

2:07:16then eventuates in the techniques that I am uh you know working on for this trip to Egypt uh that I'm that I'm giving. So, so there's that. Then finally, um Nicole and I are co-authoring a book. It's called The Astrological Gardener Companion. And it's basically about gardening using astrology and harvesting and preparing uh your plants astrologically for the purposes of alchemy and magic. — [ __ ] yes. Epic. Well, — I'm exhausted. — Love you, brother. Thanks for chatting

2:07:51with me. It was refreshing. So glad that we got to do it. And um yeah, thanks for everybody. — You too, man. I I I I I love uh I love our chats. So, thank you for um for having me on and for firing your your excellent questions at me. — You're welcome. We'll figure out a time to do another one. Things correspond and uh put that out there for people. So, peace out. Heat. Heat.